[OSM-talk] Please SWITCH to Mailman 3 & hyperkitty

[Tom Hughes]

That's just the instructions on how to migrate the data
and it doesn't cover anything related to actually installing
and configuring all the components of mailman 3 from a
quick look which is a big issue given that it's not packaged
and it's a not a single tool like mailman 2 but rather is
a collection of separate components.

Given that we're already looking at other things there is
no point in spending several months and many man hours on
attempting a migration to something that we have to install
from source and then try and keep up to date without any
upstream packages.

You're right that the UI tries to be a web forum but from
personal experience I can say that it fails - it's probably
a better UI as a simple archiver but it's no use as a way
of reading lists day to day. The only thing that's ever
got close to that is Discourse.

A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.

Tom

On 14/12/2020 18:58, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
> Python's mailing lists use mailman 3:
> 
> https://www.python.org/community/lists/ 
> <https://www.python.org/community/lists/>
> 
> What is the problem with the UI ? It seems far, far more useable than 
> pipermail and hyperkitty feels like a forum.
> 
> If upgrading isn't possible, well then I guess bad luck. The mailman 
> focs doesn't make it look that hard (is it skipping over OSM server 
> specific steps that make the process harder?)
> 
> https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html 
> <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html>
> 
> Thanks,
> IpswichMapper
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 Dec 2020, 18:45 by tom at compton.nu:
> 
>     It's not going to happen.
> 
>     Virtually nobody uses mailman 3 with the exception of Fedora
>     and I know from using it there that the UI is a disaster.
> 
>     Also it's not packaged for Ubuntu and it's far more complicated to
>     deploy than what we have.
> 
>     Don't think of mailman 3 as an upgrade - it's basically a
>     totally different product.
> 
>     There is talk of a change, but it won't be to mailman 3.
> 
>     Tom
> 
>     On 14/12/2020 18:42, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
> 
>         Okay thanks, I'll contact him on github. I don't havd mailman
>         administration experience, or that much coding experience for
>         that matter. I was just suprised that we are stuck with 10+
>         years old cluttered pipermail when hyperkitty is actually useable.
> 
>         -- 
> 
> 
> 
>         14 Dec 2020, 18:37 by jm at liotier.org:
> 
>          From looking at the Mailman Chef cookbook at
>         https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman
>         <https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman>,
>         Tom Hughes is the person you should ask. If you have mailman
>         administration experience, maybe you could make it happen.
> 
> 
>         On 12/14/20 7:18 PM, ipswichmapper--- via talk wrote:
> 
> 
>             I was wondering if all the lists on
>             https://lists.openstreetmap.org
>             <https://lists.openstreetmap.org>
>             could be switched to Mailman 3 and hyperkitty (the newest
>             archiver).
> 
>             Currently, pipermail is used to archive, and its UI is
>             *unusable*.
>             Comparatevely, hyperkitty is a lot more like a forum.
> 
>              From my experience, the mailing lists are *far more active*
>             than
>             the forum, so it would be good to have it searchable & more
>             accessible (the only downside to this is newer users might
>             use the
>             mailing list now. I don't think this is a downside, but I
>             understand why others would think so).
> 
>             Also, Mailman 3 still gets updates, while *mailman2 is on
>             maintainance mode and won't recieve feature updates.*
> 
>             I strongly recommend that the mailing lists are upgraded to
>             mailman3 with hyperkitty: this will make the mailing lists
>             so, so
>             much more useable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
>     http://compton.nu/
> 
> 


-- 
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/