[OSM-talk] Please SWITCH to Mailman 3 & hyperkitty

Jean-Marc Liotier jm at liotier.org
Mon Dec 14 19:23:46 UTC 2020


On 12/14/20 8:13 PM, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
> > A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.
>
> Ok. What alternative solutions do you propose?

 From Tom's answer, you might gather that there are higher priorities 
that absorb administrative resources - so unless you can offer a hand, 
I'm afraid that things will remain as they are for now.



> -- 
>
> 14 Dec 2020, 19:07 by tom at compton.nu:
>
>     That's just the instructions on how to migrate the data
>     and it doesn't cover anything related to actually installing
>     and configuring all the components of mailman 3 from a
>     quick look which is a big issue given that it's not packaged
>     and it's a not a single tool like mailman 2 but rather is
>     a collection of separate components.
>
>     Given that we're already looking at other things there is
>     no point in spending several months and many man hours on
>     attempting a migration to something that we have to install
>     from source and then try and keep up to date without any
>     upstream packages.
>
>     You're right that the UI tries to be a web forum but from
>     personal experience I can say that it fails - it's probably
>     a better UI as a simple archiver but it's no use as a way
>     of reading lists day to day. The only thing that's ever
>     got close to that is Discourse.
>
>     A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.
>
>     Tom
>
>     On 14/12/2020 18:58, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
>
>         Python's mailing lists use mailman 3:
>
>         https://www.python.org/community/lists/
>         <https://www.python.org/community/lists/>
>
>         What is the problem with the UI ? It seems far, far more
>         useable than pipermail and hyperkitty feels like a forum.
>
>         If upgrading isn't possible, well then I guess bad luck. The
>         mailman focs doesn't make it look that hard (is it skipping
>         over OSM server specific steps that make the process harder?)
>
>         https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html
>         <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html>
>
>         Thanks,
>         IpswichMapper
>         -- 
>
>
>
>         14 Dec 2020, 18:45 by tom at compton.nu:
>
>         It's not going to happen.
>
>         Virtually nobody uses mailman 3 with the exception of Fedora
>         and I know from using it there that the UI is a disaster.
>
>         Also it's not packaged for Ubuntu and it's far more complicated to
>         deploy than what we have.
>
>         Don't think of mailman 3 as an upgrade - it's basically a
>         totally different product.
>
>         There is talk of a change, but it won't be to mailman 3.
>
>         Tom
>
>         On 14/12/2020 18:42, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
>
>         Okay thanks, I'll contact him on github. I don't havd mailman
>         administration experience, or that much coding experience for
>         that matter. I was just suprised that we are stuck with 10+
>         years old cluttered pipermail when hyperkitty is actually useable.
>
>         -- 
>
>
>         14 Dec 2020, 18:37 by jm at liotier.org:
>
>         From looking at the Mailman Chef cookbook at
>         https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman
>         <https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman>,
>         Tom Hughes is the person you should ask. If you have mailman
>         administration experience, maybe you could make it happen.
>
>
>         On 12/14/20 7:18 PM, ipswichmapper--- via talk wrote:
>
>
>         I was wondering if all the lists on
>         https://lists.openstreetmap.org
>         <https://lists.openstreetmap.org>
>         could be switched to Mailman 3 and hyperkitty (the newest
>         archiver).
>
>         Currently, pipermail is used to archive, and its UI is
>         *unusable*.
>         Comparatevely, hyperkitty is a lot more like a forum.
>
>         From my experience, the mailing lists are *far more active*
>         than
>         the forum, so it would be good to have it searchable & more
>         accessible (the only downside to this is newer users might
>         use the
>         mailing list now. I don't think this is a downside, but I
>         understand why others would think so).
>
>         Also, Mailman 3 still gets updates, while *mailman2 is on
>         maintainance mode and won't recieve feature updates.*
>
>         I strongly recommend that the mailing lists are upgraded to
>         mailman3 with hyperkitty: this will make the mailing lists
>         so, so
>         much more useable.
>
>
>
>
>         -- Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
>         http://compton.nu/
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
>     http://compton.nu/
>
>
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