[OSM-talk] Please SWITCH to Mailman 3 & hyperkitty
Jean-Marc Liotier
jm at liotier.org
Mon Dec 14 19:23:46 UTC 2020
On 12/14/20 8:13 PM, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
> > A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.
>
> Ok. What alternative solutions do you propose?
From Tom's answer, you might gather that there are higher priorities
that absorb administrative resources - so unless you can offer a hand,
I'm afraid that things will remain as they are for now.
> --
>
> 14 Dec 2020, 19:07 by tom at compton.nu:
>
> That's just the instructions on how to migrate the data
> and it doesn't cover anything related to actually installing
> and configuring all the components of mailman 3 from a
> quick look which is a big issue given that it's not packaged
> and it's a not a single tool like mailman 2 but rather is
> a collection of separate components.
>
> Given that we're already looking at other things there is
> no point in spending several months and many man hours on
> attempting a migration to something that we have to install
> from source and then try and keep up to date without any
> upstream packages.
>
> You're right that the UI tries to be a web forum but from
> personal experience I can say that it fails - it's probably
> a better UI as a simple archiver but it's no use as a way
> of reading lists day to day. The only thing that's ever
> got close to that is Discourse.
>
> A bigger problem is that the UI for list owners is horrid.
>
> Tom
>
> On 14/12/2020 18:58, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
>
> Python's mailing lists use mailman 3:
>
> https://www.python.org/community/lists/
> <https://www.python.org/community/lists/>
>
> What is the problem with the UI ? It seems far, far more
> useable than pipermail and hyperkitty feels like a forum.
>
> If upgrading isn't possible, well then I guess bad luck. The
> mailman focs doesn't make it look that hard (is it skipping
> over OSM server specific steps that make the process harder?)
>
> https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html
> <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html>
>
> Thanks,
> IpswichMapper
> --
>
>
>
> 14 Dec 2020, 18:45 by tom at compton.nu:
>
> It's not going to happen.
>
> Virtually nobody uses mailman 3 with the exception of Fedora
> and I know from using it there that the UI is a disaster.
>
> Also it's not packaged for Ubuntu and it's far more complicated to
> deploy than what we have.
>
> Don't think of mailman 3 as an upgrade - it's basically a
> totally different product.
>
> There is talk of a change, but it won't be to mailman 3.
>
> Tom
>
> On 14/12/2020 18:42, ipswichmapper at tutanota.com wrote:
>
> Okay thanks, I'll contact him on github. I don't havd mailman
> administration experience, or that much coding experience for
> that matter. I was just suprised that we are stuck with 10+
> years old cluttered pipermail when hyperkitty is actually useable.
>
> --
>
>
> 14 Dec 2020, 18:37 by jm at liotier.org:
>
> From looking at the Mailman Chef cookbook at
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman
> <https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/tree/master/cookbooks/mailman>,
> Tom Hughes is the person you should ask. If you have mailman
> administration experience, maybe you could make it happen.
>
>
> On 12/14/20 7:18 PM, ipswichmapper--- via talk wrote:
>
>
> I was wondering if all the lists on
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org>
> could be switched to Mailman 3 and hyperkitty (the newest
> archiver).
>
> Currently, pipermail is used to archive, and its UI is
> *unusable*.
> Comparatevely, hyperkitty is a lot more like a forum.
>
> From my experience, the mailing lists are *far more active*
> than
> the forum, so it would be good to have it searchable & more
> accessible (the only downside to this is newer users might
> use the
> mailing list now. I don't think this is a downside, but I
> understand why others would think so).
>
> Also, Mailman 3 still gets updates, while *mailman2 is on
> maintainance mode and won't recieve feature updates.*
>
> I strongly recommend that the mailing lists are upgraded to
> mailman3 with hyperkitty: this will make the mailing lists
> so, so
> much more useable.
>
>
>
>
> -- Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
>
>
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