[OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Wed Mar 11 14:37:12 UTC 2020


As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante rampage):
"The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to simply block access
after giving any required notice."

Simon

Am 11.03.2020 um 14:49 schrieb joost schouppe:
> Simon,
>
> I guess with small overlap you mean it's only about people who use
> osm.org <http://osm.org> tiles, not people who use other services?
> While that is true, the double whammy of both heavily using resources
> and also not attributing does seem like a good subgroup to start with
> some measures.
>
> In the case of the OSM.org tiles, I suppose this is regulated by
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use . At first glance I
> didn't see anything providing people who do not respect those terms.
> Am I missing something, or is this a naive approach to the problem?
> Even if the ToU's could be lacking in detail, couldn't we simply
> change them? The final section talks about changes, which we seem to
> be able to just do when we want to.
>
> I would think the biggest challenge on OSMF side would be the workload
> for OWG/sysadmins.
>
> Best,
> Joost
>
> Op zo 8 mrt. 2020 om 12:18 schreef Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch
> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>>:
>
>     Just for the record:
>
>     Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing directly
>     (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with the goals
>     of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to you depend
>     on your ToUs / contracts with your users and the legal situation
>     in the countries you are providing the service in.
>
>     I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately
>     defaces a web site without consulting with a local (to the country
>     the web site is in) lawyer, particularly if the message implies
>     wrong doing. The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to
>     simply block access after giving any required notice.
>
>     Simon 
>
>     Am 08.03.2020 um 11:04 schrieb Yves:
>>     This looks at first as a nuisance that could be perceived as a
>>     bad move, but the feedback you're receiving rather prove the
>>     contrary.
>>     Well done!
>>     Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may consider
>>     it for Opensnowmap tiles policy?
>>
>>     Le 8 mars 2020 10:14:58 GMT+01:00, Christian Quest
>>     <cquest at openstreetmap.fr> <mailto:cquest at openstreetmap.fr> a écrit :
>>
>>         Here is a hort report on this experiment...
>>
>>         I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile server logs
>>         for referer and checked manually if the map on the refering
>>         page was correctly attributed.
>>
>>         This allowed me to create a short list of 20 entries of sites
>>         using the french styled tiles and the humanitarian tiles
>>         (yes, it is made by OSM France).
>>
>>
>>         I then modified our nginx based proxy_cache configuration, to
>>         redirect some tiles to an "attribution tile" only for the
>>         domain in the list.
>>
>>         For two of them, I tweeted about it... the most visible one
>>         is the moroco yellow page service, generating a little less
>>         than a million daily tile requests on our servers.
>>
>>         https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888
>>
>>         In less than 24 hours, the attribution appeared and I removed
>>         them from the list.
>>
>>         https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776
>>
>>
>>         Then I included an email address in the attribution reminder
>>         tile... and got emails back within a few hours.
>>
>>         Some were asking how to do the attribution, others telling me
>>         the attribution was now ok and asking how to remove the
>>         reminder tiles.
>>
>>         In my answers, I also remind that our tile service made by
>>         volunteers on donated hardware is not unlimited and inviting
>>         them to have a look at switch2osm to setup their own tile
>>         server or use a commercial provider.
>>
>>         Up to now, nobody complained :)
>>
>>
>>         Yesterday, I've started automating attribution checking using
>>         selenium. For each referer, a python script loads the page,
>>         searches for tiles, then looks for attribution text or link.
>>         The result is stored in a postgresql database which allows to
>>         group referers by url, hostname and ip.
>>
>>         The attribution percentage I currently see is around 70-80%
>>         which is not that bad.
>>
>>         My next major step is to use the same technique to remind
>>         about tile usage policy...
>>
>>
>>         To do something similar on osm.org <http://osm.org>, a first
>>         step is to extract referers from the cache logs, then use the
>>         automated attribution check to evaluate the situation.
>>
>>
>>         Le 08/03/2020 à 01:52, Nuno Caldeira a écrit :
>>>         That would be a good option for those that use third party
>>>         providers of OSM. But to be honest, from my experience I
>>>         highly doubt that even corporate members of OSMF, like
>>>         Mapbox would do it, when their client Facebook (also
>>>         corporate member of OSMF) after one year and half, still has
>>>         maps with lack of attribution or attributed to HERE, when
>>>         it's clearly OSM. 
>>>
>>>         On Sun, 8 Mar 2020, 00:46 Phil Wyatt, <phil at wyatt-family.com
>>>         <mailto:phil at wyatt-family.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             I am sure others may have seen this 'blacklist'
>>>             implementation for showing a reminder about attribution.
>>>
>>>             https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282
>>>
>>>             Worthy of consideration for openstreetmap.org
>>>             <http://openstreetmap.org>?
>>>
>>>             Cheers - Phil
>>>
>>         -- 
>>         Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
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