[OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers
Simon Poole
simon at poole.ch
Wed Mar 11 14:37:12 UTC 2020
As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante rampage):
"The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to simply block access
after giving any required notice."
Simon
Am 11.03.2020 um 14:49 schrieb joost schouppe:
> Simon,
>
> I guess with small overlap you mean it's only about people who use
> osm.org <http://osm.org> tiles, not people who use other services?
> While that is true, the double whammy of both heavily using resources
> and also not attributing does seem like a good subgroup to start with
> some measures.
>
> In the case of the OSM.org tiles, I suppose this is regulated by
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use . At first glance I
> didn't see anything providing people who do not respect those terms.
> Am I missing something, or is this a naive approach to the problem?
> Even if the ToU's could be lacking in detail, couldn't we simply
> change them? The final section talks about changes, which we seem to
> be able to just do when we want to.
>
> I would think the biggest challenge on OSMF side would be the workload
> for OWG/sysadmins.
>
> Best,
> Joost
>
> Op zo 8 mrt. 2020 om 12:18 schreef Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch
> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>>:
>
> Just for the record:
>
> Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing directly
> (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with the goals
> of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to you depend
> on your ToUs / contracts with your users and the legal situation
> in the countries you are providing the service in.
>
> I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately
> defaces a web site without consulting with a local (to the country
> the web site is in) lawyer, particularly if the message implies
> wrong doing. The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to
> simply block access after giving any required notice.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 08.03.2020 um 11:04 schrieb Yves:
>> This looks at first as a nuisance that could be perceived as a
>> bad move, but the feedback you're receiving rather prove the
>> contrary.
>> Well done!
>> Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may consider
>> it for Opensnowmap tiles policy?
>>
>> Le 8 mars 2020 10:14:58 GMT+01:00, Christian Quest
>> <cquest at openstreetmap.fr> <mailto:cquest at openstreetmap.fr> a écrit :
>>
>> Here is a hort report on this experiment...
>>
>> I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile server logs
>> for referer and checked manually if the map on the refering
>> page was correctly attributed.
>>
>> This allowed me to create a short list of 20 entries of sites
>> using the french styled tiles and the humanitarian tiles
>> (yes, it is made by OSM France).
>>
>>
>> I then modified our nginx based proxy_cache configuration, to
>> redirect some tiles to an "attribution tile" only for the
>> domain in the list.
>>
>> For two of them, I tweeted about it... the most visible one
>> is the moroco yellow page service, generating a little less
>> than a million daily tile requests on our servers.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888
>>
>> In less than 24 hours, the attribution appeared and I removed
>> them from the list.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776
>>
>>
>> Then I included an email address in the attribution reminder
>> tile... and got emails back within a few hours.
>>
>> Some were asking how to do the attribution, others telling me
>> the attribution was now ok and asking how to remove the
>> reminder tiles.
>>
>> In my answers, I also remind that our tile service made by
>> volunteers on donated hardware is not unlimited and inviting
>> them to have a look at switch2osm to setup their own tile
>> server or use a commercial provider.
>>
>> Up to now, nobody complained :)
>>
>>
>> Yesterday, I've started automating attribution checking using
>> selenium. For each referer, a python script loads the page,
>> searches for tiles, then looks for attribution text or link.
>> The result is stored in a postgresql database which allows to
>> group referers by url, hostname and ip.
>>
>> The attribution percentage I currently see is around 70-80%
>> which is not that bad.
>>
>> My next major step is to use the same technique to remind
>> about tile usage policy...
>>
>>
>> To do something similar on osm.org <http://osm.org>, a first
>> step is to extract referers from the cache logs, then use the
>> automated attribution check to evaluate the situation.
>>
>>
>> Le 08/03/2020 à 01:52, Nuno Caldeira a écrit :
>>> That would be a good option for those that use third party
>>> providers of OSM. But to be honest, from my experience I
>>> highly doubt that even corporate members of OSMF, like
>>> Mapbox would do it, when their client Facebook (also
>>> corporate member of OSMF) after one year and half, still has
>>> maps with lack of attribution or attributed to HERE, when
>>> it's clearly OSM.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2020, 00:46 Phil Wyatt, <phil at wyatt-family.com
>>> <mailto:phil at wyatt-family.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am sure others may have seen this 'blacklist'
>>> implementation for showing a reminder about attribution.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282
>>>
>>> Worthy of consideration for openstreetmap.org
>>> <http://openstreetmap.org>?
>>>
>>> Cheers - Phil
>>>
>> --
>> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>>
>>
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> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> | Twitter
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