[OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

[Li Yaqo]

Hello Ebrahim,

Here are some of the key points to look into, I will quote you and
highlight the key points.

> I'm not representing anywhere to "accept" something. My opinions are my
own.
Then you do not represent the Iranian community and your options are your
own just like what you said. Since you're the one who brought this matter
to the discussion in the talk\mailing list twice, this matter is considered
as an opinion of yours rather than a naming issue brought by a community.
You're an individual and as you said previously that you are not against
A\B [1], then we all agree here to have an A\B solution.

> Why aren't you taking the Mediterranean Sea as a example?
Because Iran does not overlook the Mediterranean, unlike the Caspian Sea
that overlooks Iran, we do not see any Iranian vandalism on its 'name' tag
since the adoption of the successful A\B solution for years. And since you
said you will go with any solution just to avoid the vandalism, this is the
perfect solution that is tested with the Iranians and it worked flawlessly.

> I still think "Persian Gulf" (in English) should be put in the name tag
it is not in the borders on of any country. That's also how most
international water areas are named.
No and No. The name tag should be the local name used by the locals [2] and
should follow the on-ground rule [3][4] putting a foreign name as a name
tag to an area goes against the OSM guidelines, and we can't do that. Also,
the Gulf is not "international water" it's considered as an EEZ [5][6] This
was discussed before in June/July, it's either you're ignoring and not
reading the whole discussion or you're just wasting our time.

Since I suggested the solution A\B [7] according to the naming disputes
guidelines [4] "the "name" tag could contain them both (A/B)" [8], I also
suggest that you can add "name:right=خلیج فارس" if this will help out to
resolve your case.

Finally, I don't know why you keep repeating yourself with things that the
community already discussed and debunked back then in June [9] and July
[10], have you read those discussions as you claimed? If so, why do you
keep repeating your arguments over and over again? If you are done and have
nothing new to say then just say that you're done and you feel that you
said enough so we can move on. I 2nd what Sami said to you and I hope you
understand what the fellow mappers have said previously to you and
appreciate their time and efforts to help you. I would rather see you as an
Iranian mapper discuss things that matter to your community moving them
forward such as contacting your government sites, navigation apps, travel
and tourism apps in Iran that use the OSM map without the credit (©
OpenStreetMap contributors). I also suggest you contact your ISPs who are
blocking some of OSM features to your people.

I ask the DWG team, please, handle this issue according to the OSM
guidelines. Eather dismiss this issue and keep the existing name since it
follows the guidelines. Or adopt the A\B solution to appease the author,
the vandalists, and both sides since it's fair and square. That will save
us from this endless headache.

Best Regards,
Li Yaqo.


Sources:

[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2021-December/087121.html#:~:text=I%27m%20(personally)%20NOT%20against%20A/B%20solution

[2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#:~:text=The%20primary%20name%20is%20generally%20in%20the%20local%20language

[3]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground

[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#Naming

[5] https://www.marineregions.org/eezmapper.php

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

[7] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2021-July/086762.html

[8]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#:~:text=If%20there%20are%20two%20common%20versions%20of%20a%20place%20name%2C%20as%20a%20possible%20but%20not%20recommended%20way%2C%20the%20%22name%22%20tag%20could%20contain%20them%20both%20(A/B)

[9] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2021-June/subject.html

[10] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2021-July/subject.html

[Extra]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group/Guidelines_for_responsible_mapping








On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 2:46 PM Ebrahim Nejati via talk <
talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Sami Oui <sami.oui112 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Then accept it.
>
> Unlike Abdullah, I'm not representing anywhere to "accept" something. My
> opinions are my own. Also, as I explained before, this is not how OSM
> guidelines work.
>
>
> > Then someone will add it again and "edit war" will start all over again.
> If
> > you want to avoid an "edit war" then you must see what other solutions
> > that worked successfully in a similar situation, which is the Caspian
> sea (
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3987743#:~:text=%2D2149697-,name
> ),
> > it has 5 languages and we don't see any Iranian make any edit war after
> > that solution was applied.
>
> Why aren't you taking the Mediterranean Sea as a sec cussfull example? I
> can't see anywhere in OSM guidelines that A/B is encrouged to use. It is
> only defined as an option. To quote from Disputes page [1] in wiki:
> # > If there are two common versions of a place name, as a possible but
> # > not recommended way, the "name" tag could contain them both (A/B).
>
>
> > If you disagree with the OSM guidelines and you think that you have a
> > valid point, discuss it here.
>
> I disagree on how the DWG is executing the guidelines in this issue.
> Exactly
> when the current tagging was ever discussed and reached a consensus that
> changing it needs so?
>
> I still think "Persian Gulf" (in English) should be put in the `name`
> tag it is not in the borders on of any country. That's also how most
> international water areas are named.
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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