[OSM-talk] Is edit adding private dataset created specially for OSM considered an import or not?

Wed Feb 3 15:48:56 UTC 2021

Dear Mateusz and all,

First of all, let us clarify that the way you are tackling this issue is
not the way we solve issues in OSM. You have been writing a wiki [1]
documenting a presumed undiscussed import and presumed violations of the
OEG [2] before obtaining any further information on our activities on OSM.
In fact, you have written a wiki with many unfounded claims, without
waiting a reasonable time for an answer, that came just hours after you
posted your questions in the changeset, with the involved user telling you
clearly that this is not an import.
As an organisation we are doing our best in fulfilling OEG and to
correct/improve any issues that may arise. We would like, as an
organisation and before taking action, to be contacted by the community on
our possible errors, as well as we do contact mappers and local OSM
communities about all our activities, both to engage with them and warning
them about issues that may happen.

When some problems arise in OSM, we usually contact the changeset user
before taking any action, in order to understand the full picture of
community activity. Let's wrap up what happened (times in UTC):
    - We have been notified by Mateusz through a changeset discussion about
his claim of un undiscussed import Feb 2nd at 23:24: [3]
    - The wiki [4] about this claimed undiscussed import was soon created
Feb 3rd at 07:49 [5]
    - A colleague of us saw the changeset discussion this morning Feb 3rd
at 08:18, and answered promptly, specifying source=UNIS it's not an import.
    - After that, Mateusz went on raising issues [6] and spreading the
problem [7], without waiting any time to discuss with us about solutions
and how we can improve together.

This way to handle the issues seems to us very impolite. As an OEA, we have
to contact mappers for whatever we do or plan to do and wait for an answer.
We would need reasonable time to process the issues as well, and to have
the community helping us adjust issues rather than being accused of
unfounded behaviours. Let's go into the details:

- Unite Maps [8] is an OEA [9] mapping in detail extensive areas of several
countries (currently only in Africa), that will be used for the production
of topographic maps for the UN peacekeeping missions in those countries.
Currently we are supporting 5 different countries (Somalia [10], Democratic
Republic of the Congo [11], Central African Republic [12], Mali [13] and
Abyei region [14]). To do that, we use both an internal capacity of paid
mappers and crowdsourcing activities and community engagement under the
umbrella of UN Mappers [15].

- As per OEG, we are constantly engaging with the local communities in the
countries we are working on. This comes through the efforts of the
crowdsourcing facility which has been established after the beginning of
the project and which has the goal to interface with the community on those
issues.
Nevertheless, Mateusz has been blindly giving us a priori 'special rights'
we would be presumed to have: "Note that being paid mapper or being
employed by UN is not giving you any special rights.", without discussing
with us about our activities and engagement with the local communities.
There are several examples on our efforts to be in contact with the OSM
local communities, using local mailing lists in the countries where these
do exist [16] (Jan 22nd, 2020), helping OSM local communities in
establishing local mailing lists [17] (April, 2020), entering in contact
with local mappers both to empower them and organise editing activities
together [18] without, at anytime, putting a 'UN Mappers' tag on top of any
of them, apart for the advertisement of our activities, but letting them
grow as standalone groups.

- UNIS is a collection of UN-managed satellite imagery that internal
mappers are using, together with other available imagery like Bing, Maxar
or Esri, to directly map, with the JOSM editor, features like road network,
waterways, landuse and landcover, etc. No user is producing data outside of
JOSM, or using other sources than legal aerial imagery. Every internal
mapper is mapping using JOSM on a normal office PC station, with good
Internet connection.

We really wish you could point out all the issues in our OEG setting, and
how we can improve to be compliant with the expectations of the community.

Thanks,
Michael Montani & UN Mappers team

---

[1] First version of the "deimport" wiki by Mateusz:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny/deimport_landuse_in_central_Africa,_mostly_East_Congo&oldid=2104273
[2] OSM Organised Editing Guidelines wiki page:
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines
[3] Changeset discussion:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/83025584#map=10/0.0436/29.4252
[4] Mechanical Edits/Mateusz Konieczny/deimport landuse in central Africa,
mostly East Congo:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny/deimport_landuse_in_central_Africa,_mostly_East_Congo
[5] History of Mechanical Edits/Mateusz Konieczny/deimport landuse in
central Africa, mostly East Congo:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny/deimport_landuse_in_central_Africa,_mostly_East_Congo&dir=prev&action=history
[6] A JOSM ticket: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/20451
[7] This osm-talk thread:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2021-February/086083.html
[8] Unite Maps website:
https://geoportal.dfs.un.org/arcgis/apps/sites/#/unitemaps
[9] List of OEAs:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities
[10] Activity in Somalia: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/3.091/44.753
[11] Activity in DRC: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/-1.626/28.839
[12] Activity in CAR: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/7.264/20.566
[13] Activity in Mali: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/19.5546/0.8707
[14] Activity between Sudan and South Sudan, in support of Abyei region:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/11.6711/32.3026
[15]  UN Mappers wikipage:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Unite_Maps_Initiative/UN_Mappers
[16] Example of contact of the local community in DRC:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cd/2020-January/000103.html
[17] Talk-so created by a local group of mappers in Somalia with our
support: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-so/
[18] Mapathon with OSM Mali:
https://twitter.com/UN_Mappers/status/1321471526496018434

Il giorno mer 3 feb 2021 alle ore 16:37 pangoSE <pangose at riseup.net> ha
scritto:

> Thanks for sharing this original idea that got watered down.
>
> I was not aware of that. Gated communities sound no good.
>
> Matheusz, please ask them to share the source of the data and let everyone
> have the same access to the imagery being used to trace from.
>
> If they are unable or unwilling to do that I'm unsure if this is of any
> value to OSM.
>
>
>
> Christoph Hormann <osm at imagico.de> skrev: (3 februari 2021 12:35:44 CET)
>>
>> On Wednesday 03 February 2021, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>>>   * The imagery is allegedly OK from a licence standpoint (based on
>>> one mapper's changeset comments)
>>>
>>
>> Because of exactly this kind of issue my early draft for regulation of
>> organized editing[1] contained a provision for that:
>>
>> "If you use any data in organized mapping activities that has not been
>> directly observed on the ground by the mapper and that is not routinely
>> used by normal mapping in OSM (like those listed in Potential
>> Datasources or Aerial imagery or the OSM Editor Layer Index) you need
>> to follow Import/Guidelines in addition."
>>
>> What this rule was meant to address in particular was the potential
>> formation of gated mapping communities with exclusive access to
>> specific data sources which would work massively against OSMs core idea
>> of egalitarian cooperation between mappers.
>>
>> Unfortunately only a mallable documentation requirement remained from
>> that idea in actual OSMF policy.
>>
>> To answer the question from Mateusz - mapping that is being made:
>>
>> * specifically for OSM use,
>> * based exclusively on on-the-ground knowledge and primary data like
>> imagery,
>> * by human mappers who have full control over every part of the data
>> generation process and
>> * that does not use any kind of automated conflation with existing data
>>
>> does in my opinion not fall under the import or automated edits
>> guidelines, even if it is made in large volume.  Note however that
>> especially the last condition is very hard to meet in most parts of the
>> world these days when you make extensive edits in bulk.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Directed_Editing_Policy/Imagico_Draft
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> talk at openstreetmap.org
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>
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