[OSM-talk] Fwd: Fix maritime borders of Ceuta and Melilla (Spain)

Sat Feb 20 16:12:07 UTC 2021

I come to the same conclusion Colin, there is a need and advise from the
LWG to ask for a waiver. 

Taking a more detailed look at their data, it might be a valuable
resource to consider it, being allowed to use their data also to verify
and improve other maritime borders.
Can I hope Andy to take the initiative with the DWG for the waiver if
they consider this is a valuable data source ?

Greetings,

Bert Araali

On 20/02/2021 18:49, Colin Smale wrote:
> Looks like their data is licensed as CC-BY 4.0 which is very
> permissive but I can't say if it is enough for inclusion in OSM.
> https://marineregions.org/disclaimer.php
>
> It actually looks like it may be possible, with some additional
> documentation:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/
>
> They also have ready-made median lines available for download,
> licensed as above.
>> On 02/20/2021 2:54 PM Bert -Araali- Van Opstal
>> <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can this be a possible source (although also simplified vector lines):
>> https://www.marineregions.org/about.php
>>
>> They provide downloadable shape, KML and low resolution data files.
>> Someone could ask them to provide us with high resolution data as
>> they seemed to have done all the calculations according to the UN
>> regulations and International Standards. They used PostGIS to produce it.
>> https://www.marineregions.org/downloads.php
>>
>> Didn't look at any License restrictions or conflicts though.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Bert Araali
>>
>> On 20/02/2021 16:32, Colin Smale wrote:
>>> The Median Lines are defined in terms of the Baselines - a
>>> simplified representation of the coastline doing specific things
>>> around islands, bays and estuaries. Perhaps we can get hold of the
>>> Baseline data and create our own median lines mathematically from that?
>>>> On 02/20/2021 2:13 PM Bert -Araali- Van Opstal
>>>> <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Andy, list members,
>>>>
>>>> Do you have or are there resources which we can use to define these
>>>> Median Lines and which cause no licensing conflicts ?
>>>> Do you have the intention to create a wiki page to describe this
>>>> issue and how you plan to implement it ?
>>>>
>>>> If you need some help, I am very willing to allocate some time to
>>>> participate.  As I have mapped 325 (mostly administrative)
>>>> boundaries already in JOSM.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> Bert Araali
>>>> On 20/02/2021 14:50, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>>> On 03/02/2021 10:44, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Spanish law says that in the absence of an agreement with
>>>>>> another country, their territorial sea shall not extend beyond
>>>>>> the median line:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LIS149-Spain.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moroccan law also has the same arrangement:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/MAR_1973_Act.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As there is no agreement between the two countries it would
>>>>>> appear that they both think the boundary is the median line.
>>>>>> However Morocco amended their law last year:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.moroccoembassy.co.za/morocco-in-the-news/260-morocco-updates-its-maritime-legislation-to-un-standards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details in English are sparse (they haven't sent the required
>>>>>> paper work to the UN yet), but the changes appear to be about
>>>>>> their Atlantic maritime boundaries.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Andrew.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was waiting here just in case anyone posted another point of
>>>>> view, and no-one has.  Unfortunately the US document (which
>>>>> describes the Spanish point of view) says "The Kingdom of Spain
>>>>> also includes its exclaves located on the northern coast of
>>>>> Africa, which are beyond the scope of this study".  It does,
>>>>> however, describe what Spain does elsewhere, which is presumably a
>>>>> "general intent".  As you say, the Moroccan article 2 ("In the
>>>>> absence of a specific agreement on the subject, the breadth of the
>>>>> territorial waters shall not extend beyond a median line every
>>>>> point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the
>>>>> baselines of the Moroccan or adjacent coasts") is clearer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone see a problem with the "median line" approach?
>>>>>
>>>>> If not, does anyone fancy volunteering to actually make the
>>>>> change?  It'd need to be someone familiar with boundary editing,
>>>>> which probably means familiarity with JOSM's "validator" to check
>>>>> that the resulting boundaries are both valid multipolygons and
>>>>> match the documentation above.  If not, I can do it, but it might
>>>>> take a bit longer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy (from the DWG)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
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