[OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

Abdullah Abdulrhman abdullahOSM at outlook.com
Thu Jul 8 08:51:03 UTC 2021


This is the original email from Mostafa, which I discovered that it did not reach the mailing list, I expect that he forgot to send it to "talk at openstreetmap.org" :
From: Mostafa Ahangarha <ahangarha at riseup.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 10:32 PM
To: Abdullah Abdulrhman <abdullahOSM at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

On 7/7/21 9:56 PM, Abdullah Abdulrhman wrote:
> This Gulf and whoever comes to it mostly comes to the countries in which
> it is not compared to similar water bodies such as the Pacific Ocean and
> other seas. The common name used in the surrounding countries must be
> considered, and it is not as you claim for a political motive, but
> rather it is a name used locally and commonly used. If you do not know
> this Or you decided to ignore this matter. You do not have the right to
> take sides with the other name and try to impose it on us. As I
> mentioned earlier, this proposal (imposing the Persian name) will not
> solve the problem but will increase it. The acceptable solutions are to
> put the name *A/B *or leave the *name tag blank*.

I don't think we are here to give a new definition on what an
international water body is. Persian Gulf is an international water body
by any international norms and even common sense. So lets not manipulate
these very established definitions.

Please do not deny the political motives behind calling this gulf as
Arabian Gulf.

I don't think he is taking any side. He is talking based on rationality
and international norms. If centuries of history and the well
established international recognition for the name of this international
water body suggest for Persian Gulf, then lets accept the political
motive for hijacking it and forcing everybody to call it Arabian Gulf.

Yet I think it makes sense to introduce name:country:language for such
cases. I believe people living around the gulf have the right to call it
as per their wish in their own native language.

Again, using Persian Gulf which has historical and international ground,
cannot be called imposition. This name has been there though out
history. Don't impose your desired name.

A/B option is not on the table. I can consider leaving name blank for
some time to reduce tension.

--
Regards,
Mostafa Ahangarha

and this is my replay:
________________________________
From: Abdullah Abdulrhman <abdullahOSM at outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 6:39 AM
To: Mostafa Ahangarha <ahangarha at riseup.net>; talk at openstreetmap.org <talk at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

> I don't think we are here to give a new definition on what an
> international water body is. Persian Gulf is an international water body
> by any international norms and even common sense. So lets not manipulate
> these very established definitions.

The water body of the Gulf, unlike other water bodies such as the oceans, where the Gulf has large areas of its water body within the borders of the surrounding countries, so you cannot impose a name that is not recognized by those countries and is not commonly used in them, and also with regard to international waters, there is no UN resolution It obliges and imposes states and organizations to use a specific name for the Gulf, and all that is cited in this aspect is letters from some different countries, some call them by the Arabic name and some by the Persian name.

> Please do not deny the political motives behind calling
> this gulf as Arabian Gulf.

We want to put the Arabic name because it is the common name in this region and trying to ignore and deny this is the politically motivated thing to try to erase the Arab identity and even transgress and sabotage the maps of Arab countries!

> I don't think he is taking any side. He is talking based on rationality
> and international norms. If centuries of history and the well
> established international recognition for the name of this international
> water body suggest for Persian Gulf, then lets accept the political
> motive for hijacking it and forcing everybody to call it Arabian Gulf.
Attempting to impose one of the ancient historical names is not a rational matter, and trying to transform the issue into a political one. This is a false claim. The correct fact is that the Arabic name is the common and used in this water body, and the fact that he does not know this and believes in political motives makes him biased towards the other side.


> Yet I think it makes sense to introduce name:country:language for such
> cases. I believe people living around the gulf have the right to call it
> as per their wish in their own native language.
Whether or not this proposal was accepted, what, as I previously explained, the common name is the Arabic name and it must be on the name tag, which is not as you claim that it is only an official name, the Arabic name for the Gulf is a common and well-known name, and your denial of the Arabic name I think is because you hate everything that is Arab for racist political motives

> Again, using Persian Gulf which has historical and international ground,
> cannot be called imposition. This name has been there though out
> history. Don't impose your desired name.
The historical name has changed repeatedly and since 1400 years and more (the fall of the Persian Empire) and based on the wars and conflicts in the region and the attempt to impose one name on another on the pretext that it is historical does not change anything in the matter, the name that is known now is different from what it was historically

regards
Abdullah Abdulrhman
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