[OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

Tue Jun 29 20:13:54 UTC 2021

Hi,

As I explain before "name" tag must be the Arabic name used by locals 
which is "الخليج العربي" because Arabs have:

82.5% of coastline length

94.1% of population of cities (over 100,000 population) located at 
coastline of gulf

76.5% of population of administrate divisions located coastline of gulf

So if we always care about 17.5%, 5.9% or 23.5% percent, features  will 
not have names or will have long compound names.

I will discuss some suggested solutions for this case:

على ١٨/١١/٤٢ ‫١١:١٩ ص، كتب Mostafa Ahangarha:
> I believe when there is dispute, the name tag should either use the 
> official name (recognized by the higher authorities, which in this 
> case is UN) or get removed completely. I am fine with either choices 
> to be made. Discussion over population, length of border, etc. 
> wouldn't help in such cases. There is a big regional conflict on this 
> issue and at least UN still recognizes what has been recognized 
> historically. Till the time UN has not changed its decision, using any 
> other name that Persian Gulf or خلیج فارس for name tag is wrong. 

UN uses "Persian Gulf" in English more 91%[1]  than "Arabian Gulf" 9% 
[2] but in Arabic they use "الخليج العربي" [3] , but they do not use 
"خليج فارس" [4] . "name" tag must be in local language and the name of 
the gulf in local language used by UN is "الخليج العربي" not "خليج فارس".

So UN way also guide as to Arabic name "الخليج العربي".

This behavior in naming is not in accordance with OSM rules, but I 
discuss it with you to explain that it leads you to what you are 
escaping from.

The OSM rules are clear that "name" tag for local names and "int_name" 
from international names.

There another issue in the English name of the Gulf (name:en) it is 
conflicts with the golden OSM rule (On the Ground). The English language 
is strongly used in The Arab Gulf countries: all road signs road are in 
both Arabic and English, There are many daily English newspapers in the 
Arab Gulf countries, The language of commerce in UAE and Bahrain is the 
English all invoices are written in English, All shop boards are written 
in both Arabic and English. Is is widely spoken in the Arabian Gulf 
countries.

In English there tow names for the gulf one used be gulf locals "Arabian 
Gulf", The second is not used  by locals "Persian Gulf". By using "On 
Ground Rule" the main English name (name:en) must be "Arabian Gulf" and 
the other name "Persian Gulf" must be in "alt_name:en".

If we care for Iranian sharing in Gulf (at most 23.5%) and want to clear 
"name" tag or to put "A/B" We must in first care about what the locals 
calling the gulf in strong using language.

For English name sharing "Persian Gulf" used (71.8%)[5] more than 
"Arabian Gulf" (28.2%)[6].

على ١٩/١١/٤٢ ‫٠٥:٣١ م، كتب Li Yaqo:

> Dear Frederik and OSM Mappers,
>
> After studying this case deeply, I see the best option to solve this 
> issue is solution "A/B" and here is why,
> The Mediterranean Sea had the same exact problem when the name was 
> disputed, and all parties concluded that the best thing is just to 
> remove the 'name' tag and keep the specific language name tags. While 
> it worked and finally there was some "peace" then it started all over 
> again, and the general 'name' tag was readied again.
> After studying the Arabic/Persian Gulf situation I see vandalism, 
> profanity, And whole chaos all from the Iranian side, So I believe the 
> Iranian name will be added again over and over if we set the 'name' 
> tag to empty.
> The reason I suggested the name "A/B" because it will have the Iranian 
> name, so this will probably stop this chaos. Having the name in "A/B" 
> will definitely stop it since the same thing happened in the Caspian 
> Sea, and the dispute was over when the Iranian name was in the general 
> name tag with the other languages as "A/B".
> So if we want to solve this, we need to see other examples of how it 
> was handled, empty 'name' tag failed, "A/B" name tag worked and worked 
> in the Caspian Sea, and we don't see more Iranian vandalism in that sea.
> I hope both parties will agree on this, we need to hear from the Arabs 
> and the Iranians about this.
>
> Regards,
> Li Yaqo.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:31 AM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org 
> <mailto:frederik at remote.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I have just reverted yet another unilateral edit to the Gulf relation.
>
>     I think it might be best to simply remove the name tag from it
>     altogehter. Then it will not be shown on the openstreetmap.org
>     <http://openstreetmap.org> map which
>     isn't a big issue (many other water bodies are also not shown), and
>     anyone making their own map can choose which name:xx tag they
>     prefer and
>     display that.
>
>     Bye
>     Frederik
>
>     -- 
>     Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org
>     <mailto:frederik at remote.org>  ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Using "A/B" solution in "name" tag is preferred than clearing "name" tag 
because OSM validation programs declaring absent "name" as issue and 
declaring some one who add it as issue resolver not malicious user.

[1] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aun.org+"Persian+Gulf">.

[2] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aun.org+"Arabian+Gulf">.

[3] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aun.org+"الخليج+العربي"> 
there are 536 results.

[4] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aun.org+"خليج+فارس"> 
there is an only one result of Complaint of an anti-ship ballistic 
missile called "خليج فارس"

[5] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Persian+Gulf%22> total 
results 14,100,000.

[6] see <https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Arabian+Gulf%22> total 
results 5,550.00.

-- 
Saeed Hubiashan
https://github.com/hubaishan
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/حبيشان

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