[OSM-talk] Was the deletion of Null Island reasonable?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Jan 3, 2022, 03:30 by zelonewolf at gmail.com:

> No, I do not think that we should map fictional/joke locations in OSM.
>
> Null island was deleted by DWG action a few months ago in:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9028040143/history
>
"Null Island" is a tricky case.

It is actually used to refer to this location, but often rather in context of a
broken data, not an actual geography.

""Null Island" is the name used to refer to the point on the Earth's surface where
the Prime Meridian (below Greenwich) and the equator intersect, at zero degrees
latitude and zero degrees longitude (0°N 0°E). "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island

Claiming that there is island there would be fictional/joke data.

But many names were created as a jokes! That does not make
them nonexisting places.

See for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujowa_G%C3%B3rka
which is in addition really vulgar (was created
as a bitter joke among prisoners).
( https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1500744010 )
Many names also refer to something which does not exist,
sometimes thing that never ever existed!

For example there are some tourism=attraction marked
at place where someone claimed to be abducted by
aliens. It is an actual tourism attraction despite
that it was clearly fake.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_hill

In one case known to me ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2980213010 )
someone mapped a "memorial" placed there by someone
confused into believing that it is not just an illusion.

But even without that physical object it would be mappable.

Many suburbs/localities also does not exist as some physical entity - 
but solely as shared knowledge that name refers to some specific area or location.

I think that place=locality is fine as there is a shared
knowledge that name refers to this specific location.

This object represents this - not an island.

I think that "imaginary data" is not a valid reason for deletion in this case.

I consider it equivalent to deleting name from
Dragon Cave in Kraków with description "dragons are fictional".
( https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/278057695 ).
Yes, dragons are fictional. Cave is actually named after nonexisting entity.

place=island would be fake data

Though I understand also position "noone actually uses it
as a place name for navigation or similar purposes - it is just a joke
about malformed data".

Though if I would be sailing in this region (very unlikely) then I would 
try to convince others to visit this location and would treat it as a tourism
attraction. In similar way as 20°E meridian is a minor tourism attraction in
my city
( https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7825876394 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20E%20longitude%20marked%20in%20Krak%C3%B3w,%20southern%20text.jpg <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20E%20longitude%20marked%20in%20Krak%C3%B3w,%20southern%20text.jpg?uselang=en>
line on board marks exact position of 20°E meridian
)


>
> Similarly, I deleted "The Bermuda Triangle" earlier today referencing that DWG precedent to remove fictional locations:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/115688990
>
I would consider "The Bermuda Triangle" as not a fictional though as far as I know
the stories around it are mix of lies, misunderstandings, failure to understand statistics
and entirely natural and random anomalies. And more lies/fiction/hyperbole.

> In the case of the Bermuda Triangle, the verifiability problem is particularly troublesome because the definition of the vertices of the triangle is entirely at the whims of which author is describing it.
>
That is a bigger problem in this specific case, though Null Island is nor suffering from it.
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