[Osmf-talk] Losing faith

Scott Neville scott07 at worldsofwar.co.uk
Tue Jan 15 23:47:43 UTC 2013

I quite agree with this, I am equally new to OSMF and I find it quite 
crazy that this thread is going on.  I can see why there is a need to 
have a degree of accountability on these things, but things need to be 
done in proportion.  One of the first thing I was taught about 
management (yes I have been fortunate enough to have done many 
management courses...... they were not all a total waist of time.... I 
am sure there was one that was only mostly a waist of time.... anyway), 
it was good leadership is knowing when to keep your nose out.  The 
argument was if someone is doing a good job and directing themselves in 
the right way then just leave them alone to continue and allow them to 
feel they are the master of their own destiny.  So if Steve was doing a 
good job then why not leave him be (I say if, because I very much 
dislike social media like twitter and facebook, so I have no opinion on 
what "good" use of twitter is)?  I see the need for accountability, but 
as so many others have pointed out is group tweet not a solution to this?

Well thats my 2 cents worth.


On 15/01/13 23:08, Ivo Stankov wrote:
> I am fairly new to OSM (since August 2012) and very new as an OSMF 
> member (this is virtually the first thread I am seeing since 
> enthusiastically joining a month ago).
> None of the names in this list, apart from Steve Coast, say anything 
> to me and everything I know about Steve comes from the contents of his 
> Wikipedia entry. What I want to say with this is, I know none of you 
> personally and have no knowledge of prior politics and feuds amongst you.
> As a wide-eyed newcomer, all I can say is, guys, this is just too much 
> drama from all sides! "I gave you everything!", "I'm resigning!", 
> "Bullies!" etc. Seriously, do you even comprehend how much creative 
> energy is lost for such a petty ego fight?! Quite disappointing.
> From following the discussion, my personal opinion is, that the whole 
> thing boils down to two questions:
> 1. Is @openstreetmap an ultra official channel of the OSMF, dealing 
> only with official announcements?
>     From reading the tweets, I think the answer is no, some are 
> playful, some are not that relevant to OSMF, etc. And this is the way 
> it should be.
> 2. Can the community trust Steve Coast, the founder of OSM and 
> definitely the most well known face of OSM from the point of view of 
> the broad public, to be sensible enough to write tweets from 
> @openstreetmap that are beneficial for OSM and not partisan or 
> potentially questionable?
>      I do not know him well, but somehow I think this should be a given.
> If you ask me, this Grouptweet solution, where the author of the tweet 
> is even visible to the outside users, is quite a good idea.
> - Ivo
> On 15.01.2013 23:28, Mikel Maron wrote:
>> Yea, for real.
>> Doesn't http://grouptweet.com/ solve the problem?
>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* "toffehoff at gmail.com" <toffehoff at gmail.com>
>>     *To:* Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com>
>>     *Cc:* osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:01 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Osmf-talk] Losing faith
>>     Guys,
>>     Please quite the whole mudslinging here. It's not really helping
>>     the discussion.
>>     Will the person without sin please throw the first stone.
>>     Lets try and keep the discussion in a constructive tone and clean
>>     of personal attacks ....
>>     Henk
>>     Op 15 jan. 2013, om 22:48 heeft Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com
>>     <mailto:steve at asklater.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>>     >
>>     > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org
>>     <mailto:frederik at remote.org>> wrote:
>>     >> 4. I'm very sad to see Richard throw in the towel; I felt the
>>     same when Emilie resigned in 2011, and I think it is mostly due
>>     to both being at the receiving end of what I would call bullying.
>>     I don't yet know how to achieve that but it is pretty clear to me
>>     that OSMF won't go anywhere if we don't manage to get rid of that
>>     problem.
>>     >
>>     > I've been in OSMF phone calls with you shouting obscenities at
>>     people, Fred. Maybe you could start there.
>>     >
>>     > I think it's inappropriate to make these allusions when you
>>     know that there are mails on board@ nobody is seeing and you were
>>     not there in prior meetings when Emilie resigned, either.
>>     >
>>     > Steve
>>     > _______________________________________________
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