[Osmf-talk] Communication style - moderation - CoC [was Re: Board members with similar background (was: 2018 a third episode...)}

Blake Girardot bgirardot at gmail.com
Sun Dec 16 03:06:13 UTC 2018

Hi Nico,

Your efforts to rehash your issues with HOT US Inc in OSMF / OSM email
lists only serves to escalate things and is off topic for those lists.
If you are interested in resolutions to your issues, the HOT Voting
Membership list, of which you are an un moderated member, is the place
to raise them, you are member, rise the issue there, let the
membership help you get a resolution.

Sounds to me like the process for CoC complaints at HOT US Inc, of
which there is one, might not have been followed for whatever reason
(usually lack of volunteer time in the roles). So lets discuss it out
on the HOT membership list, that is the place to get something done
about it. Note: not the public OSM resource the hot at openstreetmap.org
list, that is for the general use of the HOT community as you have so
often pointed out, and the HOT US Inc. also called the HOT membership
is the best place to raise your concerns I think.

I look forward to discussing it further you you there.


On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 4:14 PM nicolas chavent
<nicolas.chavent at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I do not think that Mikel's email calls for list moderation, nor for
> any reflexion/decision/enforcement of any CoC. Self-moderation is way
> more effective and more respectful of the sense of responsibility of
> each individuals forming the OSM community and the OSMF membership. As
> Christoph pointed out, any post on free (non-moderated) mailing-lit of
> forum is worth its contents as well as it tells a lot about its
> author. Communication style matters in good or in bad and weigh in the
> overall reputation of any individual belonging and active in a
> collective and in a community.
> Mikel's email is illustrative of several difficulties:
> - A difficulty to understand that this is during elections times that
> members talk and may express disagreements as per the future of their
> organization;
> - A general difficulty to hear and cope with disagreements in a
> collective of individuals, this is true in OSMF, this has been equally
> true in HOT US Inc;
> - A specific difficulty to remain thoughtful and calm during exchanges
> with persons with opposite views;
> - A difficulty to accept that my position about the presence of HOT US
> Inc at the OSMF can be guided by a principle and not by my affects and
> a pure anti-HOT US Inc mantra;
> This can be a surprise from someone who has been in the past and
> currently for many years OSMF Board member and also Board member,
> president and chairman of the voting member at HOT US Inc. All those
> positions request strong abilities to listen to all parties, foster
> dialogue and cool down things without resorting to control or police
> mechanisms when collective dynamics got heated by disagreements.
> There's a parallel to draw between the communication style of Mikel in
> 2018 and the one of Dale Kunce (by then President of HOT US Inc) in
> the 2017 email thread "[Osmf-talk] HOT US Inc use of Code Of Conduct
> (CoC) for Membership control after 2015 OSMF Board election"  [1]
> Both emails are a sign of a specific culture of violence within HOT US
> Inc, that I described in this 2017 email "[Osmf-talk] About HOT US Inc
> "specific" culture at work in Dale Kunce's emails and why it has to be
> mitigated at OSMF in 2017 [was Fwd: May 2017 use of Code Of Conduct
> (CoC) for Membership control in HOT US Inc internal governance]" [2]
> This culture is still at work, I am still under a CoC complaint
> process initiated in May 2017 that Mikel, as chairman of the
> organization, emailed me and which is still ongoing! I did not hear
> back nor from the Board, nor from Mikel and then Joseph Reeves who
> took over from Mikel as chairman.
> The notification email reads as below:
> "---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at hotosm.org>
> Date: Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:15 PM
> Subject: Moderation
> To: Nicolas Chavent <nicolas.chavent at gmail.com>
> Cc: HOT Board <board at hotosm.org>
> Nicolas
> Code of Conduct complaint procedures have been initiated following
> your post to the HOT membership mailing list. You will be hearing
> additional information as the process takes the next steps. No actions
> or communications are required from you at the moment.
> During the process, your messages to the membership mailing list will
> be moderated. Messages from you on different topics than the current
> complaint, and that meet the standard for good communication, may be
> approved. The complaint procedures may take into account any
> subsequent communications by you, whether direct, attempted public
> posts, or public posts.
> Sincerely
> Chair of Voting Members"
> My post to the HOT US Inc membership mailing list in that matter was
> about the history of Conflict Of Interest (CoI) handling in the
> organization and a request for the Board to let the members vote (like
> in all past cases) to replace a Board Member working for MSF who had
> to resign because of MSF CoI policy.
> This culture constitutes a specific reason for balancing the presence
> of HOT US Inc as an organization at the OSMF Board. It adds to a
> position of principle for organizational diversity which apply to any
> organization without excluding/preventing any organization (HOT US Inc
> included).
> Within that culture and this organization, the use of CoC as a
> membership control tool, is a case that every OSMF member has to keep
> in mind when some express the need of CoC in OSMF and OSM.
> Best,
> Nicolas
> [1]: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2017-December/004576.html
> [2]: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2017-December/004740.html
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 3:14 PM Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That’s totally fair Christine. I didn’t have to go that far and say that. Nicolas I apologize.
> >
> > I do think we need moderation on this list, and if we did, I would definitely accept whatever the moderator felt relevant (warning, 1 day block from posting, etc)
> >
> > Diversity of the Board is a universal concern, mine too. Being involved in HOT is a strong sign of embracing and working for diversity in OSM. Miriam is doing amazing work organizing in Mexico, across Latin America, and with women. Geoffrey has direct experience of mapping in Africa in both easy and very challenging contexts, helped organized SotM Africa, and is bringing together mappers from across the continent. OSM has a lot to learn from them, and if diversity of geography, language and gender in OSM is something you value, they are extremely qualified Board candidates to help us move.
> >
> > Mikel
> >
> > On Friday, December 14, 2018, 7:35 AM, Christine Karch <christine at hermione.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 14.12.18 um 13:22 schrieb Mikel Maron:
> > > I don’t. I think Nicolas is still bitter about being fired. And I think
> >
> > As we all see, the need of diversity within the board is a general
> > concern of the community. It is not necessary to attack Nicolas personally.
> >
> >
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> >
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> --
> Nicolas Chavent
> Les Libres Géographes
> Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
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Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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