[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community
Dominik Danelski
dominik at danelski.pl
Thu Dec 10 15:59:28 UTC 2020
Hello,
As you are an active contributor to this draft I would like to ask you a
questions regarding the meaning of some passages taken from it just to
confirm that we are on the same page:
"Power dynamics in OSM are controlled by a dominant contributor profile:
white, Western and male. This power dynamic leads to a communication
style which includes misogynistic, hostile, targeting, doxing,
unfriendly, competitive, intimidating, patronising messaging" - do you
claim that these highlighted problems with community dynamic are
inherently caused by these three traits of the contributors?
"The “do-ocracy” prioritises people of privilege; such as those with
spare time, senior positions, confidence, access to technology, and
fluency in English, amongst others. This approach is actively
counterproductive to the diversity and inclusion agenda" - do you
advocate for diversity in an ultimate goal of creating a better map or
is pursuing diversity and inclusion agenda a sufficient goal on its own?
"many OSM spaces are characterised by white male superiority and toxic
meritocracy" - could you give me the examples of what does constitute of
such behaviour, especially the second one? Not in broad terms, rather
some examples what it does look like in the OSM landscape.
In the spirit of a healthy discussion I ask every participant not to
publicly assume my intentions for asking these questions at least
without answering them: overheated debates do not serve a goal of
reaching consensus.
Kind regards
Dominik Danelski
W dniu 10.12.2020 o 10:27, Heather Leson pisze:
> Good morning
>
> As Celine mentioned, we are a coalition of people who want change in
> OSMF and OSM. Our statement clearly states that we are willing to work
> with OSMF (working groups, board, membership) and OSM (community,
> project and network). This means collaboration with the local chapters
> and community working group as well as building on the diversity
> statement made by the board this year. Many of you have seen a few of
> us state this before in all the forums. Now is the time to listen and
> meet us half way.
>
> You will note that many of the people who signed do not post on the
> OMSF mailing list for fear of targeting. So, please consider why we
> want change.
>
> On being a woman - every day we have to ask (demand) and show for our
> rights to be equal. Every day we have to worry about sexualized
> actions and/or comments. Some of us have been through horrible
> experiences and others just want to never talk about gender again. So
> why do we bring it up? We bring it up because we see it, we feel it
> and we experience it. What I ask for you all is to spend a day talking
> with women in your lives. We just want to 'be' too, but the reason we
> speak up is because being called derisive terms makes us not feel like
> this is a safe place. As such, we ask to, as one person stated - focus
> on the issues, not the people. But, we will focus on people and gender
> until we don't have to point out discrepancies.
>
> For Frederik - yes, you said a word that is sexualized and fairly
> violent for many of us. Honestly, we have been catcalled and treated
> like objects for years. Let's do better. I think you will too. Yes,
> your name is listed there but only because it was 'the this time
> story' - meaning, yet another reason why people leave OSM and or feel
> like they cannot participate. Words matter. Tone Matters. We matter. I
> appreciate your passion for the project, but please don't equate our
> passion for change as about you alone. This document was written by
> many people. I, for one, don't 'hate' here. We are just trying to
> open up this conversation, no matter how raw it is for all of us.
>
> For comments about Frederik's name in the statement. I added a comment
> to the statement document to consider if it should be a footnote, but
> to recognize the origins of this statement and coalition "There were
> requests on the OSMF mailing list to remove names from the statements.
> While this was a trigger, perhaps this could go as a footnote?"
>
> Mateusz Konieczny - your point about "citizens" is well noted. I added
> a comment to consider editing this. "there was a comment on the OSMF
> mailing list that not all people who benefit from OSM are citizens of
> a country .This is very true especially with migrants and displaced
> people."
>
> For John Whelan - "The danger in Celine's confrontational approach is
> we throw the baby out with the dish water."
>
> We are all here with her asking for change. We want OSM to be ok for
> us to read and post to the list without being asked about babies and
> household chores.
>
> For Clay - this is why we all jointly wrote the note to stand together
> and post as a group.
>
> For Jean-Marc - thank you for considering the middle way and seeking
> to listen and understand.
>
> We were all fairly taken aback by his comments. The point is - we
> cannot consistently keep saying there are issues and not do more. This
> was indeed a trigger point. But let's focus on the bigger picture.
>
> Let's work together to find a middle ground to be truly diverse and
> inclusive. I am sure there will be many iterations of the planning as
> we work to convert it into action.
>
> Heather
>
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherleson at gmail.com <mailto:heatherleson at gmail.com>
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com <http://textontechs.com>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 7:58 AM Darafei Praliaskouski via osmf-talk
> <osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 10:48 PM Maarten Deen <mdeen at xs4all.nl
> <mailto:mdeen at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>
> I have been silent about this but when a document is drafted
> where only
> supporters will be heard, I have to speak out in Frederiks
> support.
> I have seen no systemic aggressive behaviour that demotivates and
> excludes participation by women and minority groups in OSM or
> behaviour
> that degrades the spirit of open community culture, and
> damages the
> OpenStreetMap reputation from Frederik.
>
>
> Basically, a person (who is a board candidate) was denied to be
> able to own their own will, substituted with their employer, and
> insulted in a way that I cannot construct a way of self-defense from.
>
> That was done by a former board member, an employee/owner of a
> company that has a seating board member, and if we mirror the
> whole thing - "done to protect Geofabrik's investment into having
> a seat on the board". Of course, such an interpretation will not
> be acceptable for current board member, employee of Geofabrik and
> expectedly a report of Frederik.
>
> For some reason this aggressive gatekeeping behavior to secure a
> board seat from a small company is tolerated and comes unnoticed.
> I believe if you think Frederik's behavior is okay there, you are
> indeed a part of a problem, to my view. Michal has decades of
> experience in cartography & OSM before joining FB, but that is
> erased and ignored by Frederik in unacceptable fashion.
>
> I support the document below.
>
>
> On 2020-12-09 20:06, Celine Jacquin wrote:
> > Hello everybody
> > I hope you are all well
> >
> > We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals,
> have
> > reacted to the conversation in the osm-talk-list
> >
> (https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html)
> > considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the
> problem we have
> > faced for many years in the community, which is one of the
> greatest
> > obstacles to diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real
> > change.That is why we have developed a beginning of
> statement on the
> > desirable mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of
> coexistence and
> > improve diversity.
> >
> > We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels
> represented
> > to sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is
> welcome):
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > On behalf of the signatories
>
>
>
> Darafei,
> as an individual who's with OSM from 2008.
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