[Tagging] [Talk-us] State highway refs (was Re: New I.D Feature)

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Fri Dec 5 04:23:11 UTC 2014

Sounds like an analogous situation to the difference between State Highways
and State Routes in Oregon.  The shields always have the state route, the
blade markers at bridges and some milemarkers list both the route and the
highway.  Not all state highways are members of state routes (since roads
in state parks, notably, are state highways, as are most ocean beaches as
they're open to vehicles).  This kind of lends some strong credence to my
opinion that it's time to bury the dinosaur of having route refs on ways,
that way the way ref can actually *be* the *actual* reference of the way...

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 9:15 PM, James Mast <rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com>

> I've been handling the 'four-digit' SR's here in PA another way.
> Technically, the routes are 'somewhat' signed, but in a way that people
> wouldn't normally see or pay attention to except in a few places.  These
> routes normally get a little white square box on the sides of the road.
> [1]  They also can 'sometimes' appear on street blades depending on the
> area. [2]  So, what I've been doing is tagging the 4-digit routes with the
> following tag 'ref:penndot=SR ****'. (Example [3])  I think that tag works
> perfectly, especially if somebody wants to add the state route for a
> bannered highway (US-19 Truck in the North Hills of Pittsburgh is 'SR
> 4003').  It keeps the info together, plus IMO, works better here since they
> aren't 'true' unsigned highways unlike in several Western states where you
> can't find any reference to a US highway on an Interstate most of the time.
> -James
> [1] - http://goo.gl/maps/RsXme
> [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/w0Xoq (While it might be hard to read, that's
> 'SR 3025' posted on that blade)
> [3] - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/19597194
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:16:01 -0600
> From: baloo at ursamundi.org
> To: rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com
> CC: talk-us at openstreetmap.org; burkejf3 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] State highway refs (was Re: New I.D Feature)
> Someone in the Valley Forge area also tagged refs on a LOT of four-digit
> State Routes that aren't signed...seems like this belongs in a relation
> with unsigned_ref and the ref should be unsigned_ref.  Yes, I know they're
> on the bridge placards and what not, but there's no route shields on these.
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM, James Mast <rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Same thing goes with Florida.  Just the state outline.
> Heck, in Pennsylvania, originally on BGS's before we started to use the
> Keystone shield, we used the 'PA' abbreviation (one such sign that still
> stands [1]).  However, now on the little white reference mileage signs [2]
> that PennDOT posts on roads they maintain, it says 'SR' (even on
> Interstates).  However, PennDOT recently posted a nice little gem on PA-28
> @ Exit #6 going both directions that goes back in time and mentions the
> 'PA' on the sign. [3]  There are at least 3 of these signs (2 going SB, at
> least 1 going NB).
> -James
> [1] - http://goo.gl/maps/RsXme
> [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/ARr9s
> [3] - http://youtu.be/W3xI5Y8eRk4?t=2m1s (the video needs to be paused
> right here @ 2m1s to see the sign clearly)
> ------------------------------
> From: burkejf3 at gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:55:13 -0500
> To: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] State highway refs (was Re: New I.D Feature)
> In Georgia, (almost?) all state roads are signed with the state outline
> and the highway number, but no "GA" or "Georgia" text with it. Occasionally
> you might see "State Road" or "State Route" printed on the sign in addition
> to the state outline. In some very rural areas, I think there might still
> be a few un-logoed signs, but probably not many.
> -jack
> On November 30, 2014 5:58:53 PM EST, Minh Nguyen <
> minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us> wrote:
> On 2014-11-30 10:41, stevea wrote:
>  My two cents:  I must say that here in California, I've made it a habit
>  to remove the "County Route" designation (CR) which precedes a ref
>  number in our County Route system.  For example, NE2 (a banned-from-OSM
>  former contributor for those unfamiliar with that history) entered ref
>  tags for many G2, N1... county routes as "CR G2" and "CR N1."  That, in
>  my opinion, is so redundant (as G and N and A and S... are well-known
>  multi-county/regional-within-California county highway networks) as to
>  be true clutter.  People in California do know (and routing software,
>  renderers... SHOULD know) that A1, G2, N4 and S16 are county routes in a
>  lettered system where each letter represents a cluster of counties...at
>  least in California.
> Some northwest Ohio counties post shields along section line roads that
> say A, B, C, etc. So far I've been tagging them like "CR A", even though
> you'd be hard-pressed to find that style anywhere outside of OSM.
> Instead of reducing ambiguity, I wonder if the "CR" may cause very mild
> confusion, for example when a router tells its user to turn onto "CR R".
>  Also, while "SR" (for "State Route" in California and other states) is
>  still legally correct, I still might change for consistency's sake any
>  "SR" prefix I see in a highway route relation ref tag to be "CA"
>  instead.  So, while "SR 17" is correct, I much prefer "CA 17" and will
>  change it to that if I see SR in a California highway route relation ref
>  tag.
> Yes, usage is different in California. I've only ever seen "SR" on
> signage a few times, in rather obscure places. But in Ohio, it's ubiquitous.
>  I agree with what we (as OSM volunteers entering/editing data in our
>  map) now do, as well as what map styles/renderers and routing engines
>  do, as Minh notes above:  "recognize the state abbreviation, SR or SH."
>  Yes, Michigan still has its M- routes, and I think OSM (both its human
>  editors and software components) should just learn to cope with that
>  (plus perhaps a few other states) as exceptions to this largely (though
>  not completely) applicable rule.  I believe we are pretty much there,
>  but we still have edge cases, data in the map and newer contributors who
>  are not completely familiar with these conventions in the USA.
>  Discussing it here helps, though wiki documentation and taginfo data
>  which are consistent across
> the fifty states is better.
> My response to anyone who wants more consistency is that route relations
> are the way forward. They may be painful now but they make the data a
> lot less subject to interpretation.
> --
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
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