[Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging

Steve Doerr doerr.stephen at gmail.com
Sun Dec 14 10:52:17 UTC 2014

When I see 'facultatif' in French, I normally translate this as 
'optional' in English. You will find 'facultative' in the Oxford English 
Dictionary, but it will be a meaningless word to most English people.


On 14/12/2014 10:35, Ulrich Lamm wrote:
> Am 13.12.2014 um 10:56 schrieb tagging-request at openstreetmap.org 
> <mailto:tagging-request at openstreetmap.org>:
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:29 +0000
>> From: SomeoneElse <lists at atownsend.org.uk 
>> <mailto:lists at atownsend.org.uk>>
>> To:tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging
>> Message-ID: <548B1465.60509 at atownsend.org.uk 
>> <mailto:548B1465.60509 at atownsend.org.uk>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> On 12/12/2014 13:13, Ulrich Lamm wrote:
>>> Seehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts
>> This could benefit from an explanation of what problem you're trying to
>> solve here.  The wiki's full of "I think we should tag X like Y" pages
>> but without any arguments for a change to motivate mappers to change
>> their habits it's not going to happen.
>> Currently, for example, "obligatory" is used only 40 times, and 10 of
>> those are "nudism":
>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values
>> Also the mainly biological term "facultative" is used as if it's an
>> accepted tag, but there are only 49 uses, in the centre of Bremen:
>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative
>> (and it's not common English by any stretch of the imagination - maybe
>> versions of it are more used in Romance languages where the latin root
>> is more obvious)
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
> All tags I've written in purple are innovative. I. e., they are an 
> outcome of logical delibaration, not a record of frequent practice.
> Even myself I didn't use them before suggesting them.
> But only watching practice, we'll never get a set of uneqivocal tools.
> As I've written in the "notes", I have preferred the term 
> "obligatory", as it is common in many languages, and it is part of the 
> official description of the round blue French traffic sign "piste ou 
> bande cyclable obligatoire" = "obligatory cycletrack or cycle lane".
> The counterpart (rectangular blue French sign)  is "piste ou bande 
> cyclable conseillée et réservée" = "advisory-and-reserved cycletrack 
> or cycle lane". There, I suggest "facultative" or simply "free" for 
> cycletracks and "soft_lane" fpr cycle lanes. That kind of cycletracks 
> (in Germany "Radweg ohne Benutzungspflicht", cycletrack-design without 
> signpost) may be used only by cyclists, but needn't be used by them. 
> The British traffic law has a similar status for its _strict_ cycle 
> lanes, called "mandatory", which puzzles readers of other native 
> languages, as according to dicitionaries "mandatory" is almost 
> synonyme with "obligatory".
> I think it doesn't matter if the term "obligatory" or the term 
> "facultative" is also used for other than road traffic features, 
> unless the other usage would be in contradiction to the road traffic use.
> Cheers
> Ulrich
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