[Tagging] Postindustrial Castle

John Eldredge john at jfeldredge.com
Wed Oct 21 23:30:04 UTC 2015


Some castles that started off as strictly defensible structures had 
nondefensible additions later, in peaceable times.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- john at jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.



On October 16, 2015 5:13:48 AM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 16/10/2015 7:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>
>> 2015-10-16 10:02 GMT+02:00 John Willis <johnw at mac.com
>> <mailto:johnw at mac.com>>:
>>
>>     It just feels weird to tag a more modern structure never used as a
>>     castle as a castle.
>>
>>     You are right - the duck test tells me it is an imposing historic
>>     building. And yea, it looks a bit like a castle and is named
>>     "castle" - like the disney castle - but it's style is to mimic a
>>     castle - it was never meant to really be one. It is a rich
>>     person's house.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are reading "castle" as a defensive structure, aren't structures
>> like these castles as well:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Versailles (ok, that's a
>> palace in English, but a ch√Ęteau in French and a Schloss in German)
>> and according to the historic=castle page in the wiki, these should be
>> tagged with castle_type=palace (or manor or stately when smaller / for
>> lesser nobles)
>
> The OSM wiki page historic=castle has not been 'approved'. I regard it
> as wrong ... in particular with regard to Palaces, Manors .. those are
> buildings ..
> Palace is mentioned in the original proposal page for building...
>
> The dividing line between a castle and a building ..
> like the difference between a memorial and a monument .. all relative.
>
> A structure that has an outer defensive wall with an inner building that
> also has defensive capabilities is a castle.
>
> A building without defensive capabilities is not a castle.
>
> To me Schloss Ludwigslust
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Ludwigslust>, Germany is not a
> castle. It is a building.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwigslust_Palace
>
>
>>
>> And btw., you have not yet answered the question regarding the
>> Neuschwanstein case. I could name a similar example (besides the other
>> Ludwig II castles in Bavaria), much smaller, here:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenstein_Castle_%28W%C3%BCrttemberg%29
> Appears to be a castle.
>> Or also this one, residence of the emperor of Germany (prussian
>> enclave), but not actually a defensive structure (but "fake
>> defensive"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenzollern_Castle
>
> Appears to be a castle. OSM maps 'what is on the ground.. so castle?
>>
>> Do you agree these are castles? This is the wiki list about castles:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:castle_type
>>
>> These 19th century castles are all (or mostly) considered castles by
>> the Germans (actually they are either "Burg", or "Schloss",
>> Lichtenstein and Hohenzollern both are "Burg", the same word as for
>> the medieval defensive castles), but they are clearly very different
>> from medieval castles and never have worked as defensive structures
>> (neither have they been intended to be such). Here's a very small
>> example of an actual medieval castle:
>> http://www.hohen-hundersingen.de/
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burg_Hohenhundersingen
>
> Yep all castles. Ruins.. but were castles.
>
>>  I brought this significance thing up, because that seems to be the
>> distinctive criterion for the three castle types "palace", "manor" and
>> "stately".
>
> To me, "palace", "manor" and "stately" are buildings.. not castles.
>
>
>
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