[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Mon Feb 13 07:42:00 UTC 2017

On 13-Feb-17 06:09 PM, Fran├žois Lacombe wrote:
> Hi,
> Thank you Jherome for this clarification attempt.
> No objection against mixing poles and tower on any lines.
> Regarding the phase=2 discussion, phases=* have a clear definition.
> Occidental countries usualy have 3-phases power grids, but sometimes, 
> 2 phases lines are used to feed train traction substations or heavy 
> industries. It's not about a single phase line with neutral pole + 1 
> live cable, it's 2 live cables often taken from 3-phases substation or 
> line.

In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is 
unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one 
Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a 
requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.

> According to the picture used, this is the correct value : the 
> transformer has 2 cables from a 3-phases line (without neutral pole) 
> connected to its primary side.
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Bridleway%2C_Atwick_-_geograph.org.uk_-_386117.jpg
> Furthermore, I'm wondering what's the best tagging regarding 
> transformers or switches installed on top of power poles/towers :
> power=pole
> transformer=distribution
> voltage=...
> phases=...
> or
> power=pole
> transformer=distribution
> transformer:phases=...
> transformer:voltage=...
> Looking forward to your comments

Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage, usually 
these voltages are different.
Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected to the 
transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.

Switches ... usually used for isolation.

> All the best
> *Fran├žois Lacombe*
> fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
> www.infos-reseaux.com <http://www.infos-reseaux.com>
> @InfosReseaux <http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux>
> 2017-02-13 1:39 GMT+01:00 Tristan Anderson 
> <andersontristan at hotmail.com <mailto:andersontristan at hotmail.com>>:
>     There's an intersting discussion about this here:
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer>
>     Here it is suggested that split single-phase power be tagged as
>     phases=2.  I disagree with this, and instead advocate tagging it
>     as phases=1 voltage=240.  In North America at least, this implies
>     split single-phase power.  The tag phases=2 should be reserved for
>     the rare instances (maybe not so rare in some parts of the world?)
>     where actual two-phase power is present.
>     Either way, this needs to be standardized and whatever decision we
>     come to needs to be made clear on the wiki pages for
>     power=transformer and the new power pole extension proposal.
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+osm at gmail.com
>     <mailto:kevin.b.kenny%2Bosm at gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* February 12, 2017 7:14 PM
>     *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
>     *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole
>     extension
>     I think I've seen two-phase power once, in a commercial building
>     in Philadelphia, built around 1905. All the high-power uses (HVAC,
>     mostly) in the building were actually driven off 208 or 480 volt
>     three-phase, provided by phase-converting transformers and switch
>     gear. There were a handful 240-volt circuits that were stepped
>     down (or tapped?) from the 480, and a lot of the lighting was run
>     off the 277-volt phase-to-neutral of the 480 circuits. The
>     building electricians regarded the two-phase four-wire power as a
>     damned nuisance.
>     Two-phase is surely uncommon in the US, while split-single-phase
>     is ubiquitous.
>     On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mike Thompson
>     <miketho16 at gmail.com <mailto:miketho16 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>         On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>         <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>             On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:
>>             If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it
>>             simply means we won't see any instances of the tag
>>             phases=2, just like how we'll never see phases=17.  It
>>             doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the
>>             tagging scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that
>>             should be voted on.
>             There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to
>             avoid American mappers misusing this tag for 240v split
>             single phase.
>         That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.
>              I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in
>             the USA, possibly many instances.
>         Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase
>         power?

Instance of the tag phase=2 misused.

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