[Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 93, Issue 12

Jack Burke burkejf3 at gmail.com
Fri Jun 9 02:55:14 UTC 2017


As one who is indigenous to the United States, I don't see the problem with
Lake Calhoun.

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:34 PM, <tagging-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Tom Hardy)
>    2. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Clifford Snow)
>    3. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in   Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Tom Hardy)
>    4. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Clifford Snow)
>    5. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Dave Swarthout)
>    6. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,
>       Minnesota (Brad Neuhauser)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:11:18 -0500
> From: Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com>
> To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis,    Minnesota
> Message-ID: <3221875.6S8bfXfhWU at sgt.decathlon.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Lake Calhoun <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=44164741> is the subject
> of
> local discussion due to racist associations of the word "Calhoun".  I know
> a
> name change has been promoted, but I have no further details.
>
> The name was recently changed to name=Bde Maka Ska, with name:dak=Mde Maka
> Ska, something that won't be recognised by most people or entities in the
> area.
>
> I added name:en=Lake Calhoun and added a note but have taken no further
> action.
>
> --
> Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 16:23:50 -0700
> From: Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis, Minnesota
> Message-ID:
>         <CADAoPLq9uN5HRaEC1gLrEwq500679DV7oUuOqAgn+bZVEN9XDA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Lake Calhoun <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=44164741> is the subject
> > of
> > local discussion due to racist associations of the word "Calhoun".  I
> know
> > a
> > name change has been promoted, but I have no further details.
> >
> > The name was recently changed to name=Bde Maka Ska, with name:dak=Mde
> Maka
> > Ska, something that won't be recognised by most people or entities in the
> > area.
> >
> > I added name:en=Lake Calhoun and added a note but have taken no further
> > action.
> >
>
> According to Wikipedia [1], the city can not change the name. But since
> they did put up new signage, according to the article, I agree that
> name=Bde Maka Ska is appropriate. I would use the name_1=Lake Calhoun
> instead of name:en. Lake Calhoun isn't the english version of Bde Maka Ska.
>
> >From an article in the StarTribune [2] it looks like the park is still
> called East Lake Calhoun Park.
>
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Calhoun#Name
> [2]
> http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-park-board-to-
> vote-tonight-on-lake-calhoun-name-change/421157163/
>
> Clifford
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 18:50:01 -0500
> From: Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis, Minnesota
> Message-ID: <27220167.8zj5PC1KOv at sgt.decathlon.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thursday, 8 June 2017 18:23:50 CDT Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> > According to Wikipedia [1], the city can not change the name. But since
> > they did put up new signage, according to the article, I agree that
> > name=Bde Maka Ska is appropriate. I would use the name_1=Lake Calhoun
> > instead of name:en. Lake Calhoun isn't the english version of Bde Maka
> Ska.
>
> [...]
>
> Huh.  That one flew right by me.  Noted.  Now I have to learn to pronounce
> it.
>
> --
> Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 17:13:34 -0700
> From: Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis, Minnesota
> Message-ID:
>         <CADAoPLp4=j58if-8WLyoeFMxHnNMqp5sP0LwdE731Xm33
> Tr8ng at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Huh.  That one flew right by me.  Noted.  Now I have to learn to
> pronounce
> > it.
>
>
> Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist and
> pronounce it incorrectly.
>
> FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a slave
> owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to Martin
> Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:04:01 -0800
> From: Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis, Minnesota
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKWFYhX5oeYJVwVB1eKTZcMqdecKDSWFvvpd7uPqcKqEzYMokg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Names of things are changing ll the time. Here in Alaska, Barrow has been
> renamed to Utqiagvik, for example.
>
> However, I don't think you should use the name_1 tag. There has been
> endless discussion on this list about the uses of tags having numerical
> suffixes either with underscores or colons, and I believe that notation is
> out of favor now. Names like this one might better be tagged either as
> old_name=Lake Calhoun, or alt_name=Lake Calhoun. Using alt_name has, IIRC,
> the additional advantage of being searchable with Nominatum.
>
> Best,
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Huh.  That one flew right by me.  Noted.  Now I have to learn to
> >> pronounce it.
> >
> >
> > Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist
> > and pronounce it incorrectly.
> >
> > FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a
> slave
> > owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to
> Martin
> > Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.
> >
> > --
> > @osm_seattle
> > osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 21:34:07 -0500
> From: Brad Neuhauser <brad.neuhauser at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in
>         Minneapolis, Minnesota
> Message-ID:
>         <CAJA6SWbO_=wW0=4tLhPLdGXoOmDdO5kL7EjHbkK21Eqwy9Bq=
> w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi I live in Minneapolis and am excited for this change. For Clifford and
> whoever else is interested, here's an article that has the Dakota
> pronunciation for Bde Maka Ska and some other area lakes:
> https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/14/bdemakaska-lake-calhoun
>
> Locally there's been an increasing awareness of the indigenous land we are
> living on--for example see this map the city did with some of the
> indigenous place names within Minneapolis:
> https://streets.mn/2017/06/05/map-monday-dakota-and-ojibwe-
> place-names-in-minneapolis/
> As an OSM tie-in, I've been adding Dakota (name:dak) and Ojibwe (name:oj)
> names for some physical features in Minnesota.
>
> Cheers,
> Brad (aka neuhausr)
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <rhardy702 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Huh.  That one flew right by me.  Noted.  Now I have to learn to
> >> pronounce it.
> >
> >
> > Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist
> > and pronounce it incorrectly.
> >
> > FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a
> slave
> > owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to
> Martin
> > Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.
> >
> > --
> > @osm_seattle
> > osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> >
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> End of Tagging Digest, Vol 93, Issue 12
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