[Tagging] Both proposals for disputed country borders

Johnparis okosm at johnfreed.com
Sat Dec 1 13:22:06 UTC 2018

Thanks, Andy.

I'm currently working on refining my proposal. You're right that some of it
is just to define what we already do. I've had a few private conversations
with others to get feedback, as well as the feedback here and on the
discussion page.

I expect to have Version 1.2 posted, with examples on the development
server, this weekend.

Take good care,


On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 1:15 PM Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com> wrote:

> (previous conversations heavily edited)
> On 28/11/2018 10:49, Rory McCann wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 28/11/2018 06:39, Johnparis wrote:
> >
> >> ... Finally, is there some reason you want to create a competing
> >> proposal? I don't have any knowledge of two competing proposals being
> >> discussed at the same time; would they be followed by two votes? I
> >> thought the idea was to reach consensus.
> >
> > Yes this can appear a little snarky, that's not my intent. I half
> > heartely suggested this idea 2 years ago (
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-May/029211.html
> > ), but abandoned it.
> >
> > As you know, recent events mean OSM should have an answer to this.
> > We'll talk and discuss and surely we can come to consensus.
> >
> Personally at this stage I'd suggest keeping things simple, and
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ClaimedBorders is
> certainly simpler than
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Mapping_disputed_boundaries
> .  Some of the definition in Mapping_disputed_boundaries is useful, but
> some might need clarifying (I'm thinking of the "De facto borders" and
> "Default borders" definitions, which if I read correctly is just
> defining some of what we currently do).  I suspect that the idea of
> "OSM-designated borders" might meet some opposition, even though we
> effectively have those in a few places.  The former Western Sahara is an
> example; attempts to claim that Morocco has control over all of the
> former Western Sahara have been reverted, but attempts to better map the
> wall (which is visible from imagery) have been welcomed.
> As I understand it, the broad requirements of both proposals are similar
> - in a case with two claims over an area you'd get either two extra
> relations (in the case of Crimea) or only one (Serbia/Kosovo).  The new
> relations will be large (relations the size of a country, however you
> define that, tend to be) and may be subject to breakage as current
> admin_level=2 relations are (those are monitored by e.g.
> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=728103#p728103 ).
> It'd be good to get something into the OSM data that represents these
> claims so that we can provide fully worked examples to people who want
> to render particular sets of borders, the same as we do for people who
> want to create maps in a particular language.
> Best Regards,
> Andy
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20181201/e649f800/attachment.html>

More information about the Tagging mailing list