[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Top up

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Wed Dec 26 21:46:52 UTC 2018

Yes, it would be more comfortable to tag the PayPoint service itself in a
certain way instead of all the individual services.

It is also better maintainable, as when a new provider registers with
PayPoint, we don't need to amend all previously tagged places with a mass

>From a perspective of policy, I guess we may allow such shorthand for
specific exceptional cases when end users can easily identify the brand and
what it implicates. Keep in mind that machine processing will suffer unless
we store such mapping on the wiki.

In order to properly fill payment:*=*, I once started to gather the kind of
POS terminals and payment processors in Hungary and the type of cards
accepted at each place, but the list was not pretty. Basically each shop
accepts a random subset of 5-10 card issuers depending on the payment
processor/terminal provider. Noting all accepted cards precisely for every
shop is exhaustive, so it is not being done around here (I myself simply
use debit_cards=yes instead). It would also carry a high maintenance burden
later on. However, if we simply mapped the payment processor/terminal
provider instead of the individual card combinations accepted, it could be
done much more effectively, but then we needed an external lookup table
very similar to what you propose, that may be edited on a machine readable
wiki page for example. I find that this very same issue pops up pretty
often when we are trying to extend and redesign OSM related data models and
processes, so it would be nice to arrive at a universal solution for this.

Here are some examples at the end of this thread if you are interested:

Although I'm not from the UK, I think this is where the term "top up"
originated from and what the of the world identifies it as:

However, I can see where you are coming from:

In Hungary, it doesn't make sense to say "topping up" (roughly translated
as "filling up your balance") your bills - we always use the word "pay" or
"settle" (the latter roughly translated as equilibrate) in context of debts
and invoices. Although the words for refilling coffee (the waiter roughly
asks whether they can pour/fill some more coffee for you) and topping up
balance (you roughly say that you are "charging" some balance or money on
the card similar to charging or filling up a battery completely) are pretty
close indeed.

So if you see a potential for confusion with the future use of the term
"top up", please help us come up with a better one that can still be
understood and translated internationally.

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:18 PM Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 at 18:07, bkil wrote:
>> Please don't confuse top ups with refilling:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refilling_a_purchased_drink
>> I think "top up" is standard terminology in the UK for increasing the
>> balance of prepaid mobile phone accounts.
> That, amongst other things.  Even when, strictly speaking, they're
> payments rather than top-ups.
> Because language mutates that way, and what started out as being purely
> for topping things up
> ended up also handling bill payments.
> Since you mentioned the UK, then just to complicate matters...
> A large number of outlets offer the services of PayPoint.  With this
> system I can top up my phone
> account with the UK's four main mobile network operators (and possibly
> some of the virtual operators),
> pay some or part of my gas bill, top up my electricity meter key, pay some
> or part of my water bill, pay
> some or part of my TV licence (those outside the UK may have no idea what
> that is or why we have one)
> and pay many other different things.
> I'd like to be able to point you at a list of everything that can be
> paid/topped up using PayPoint.  I really
> would.  Because, if I saw the list I might spot some other thing it would
> be preferable[1] for me to pay
> that way.  But PayPoint's website appears not to have such a list.  I
> might be able to find such a list
> from the sitemap, but that is broken.  So all I can do is give you this
> link and you can play
> "guess the logo" for the 30+ logos of the claimed 300+ companies that can
> be paid this way:
> https://corporate.paypoint.com/our-proposition/whatwedo
> There's a hell of a lot of things that can be paid/topped up that way.  I
> suspect it might be better (at least
> in the UK) to tag it topup:payment_network=paypoint or some such rather
> than have 300+
> topup:phone:ee=yes + topup:electricy:sse=yes + topup:water:dwr_cymru=yes +
> topup:gas:eon=yes + topup:tv_licence=yes +...
> [1]Why would I ever find it preferable to pay anything (other than top up
> my electricity meter key) this
> way?  My bank has a scheme to encourage people to use online banking,
> whereby certain businesses
> offer discounts (if you use online banking to select a particular discount
> currently on offer).  One of the
> shops near me with a PayPoint terminal is part of a franchise that offers
> me a 5% discount every 3 or
> 4 months.  It's supposed to entice me to buy their big-brand-only, sold-at
> higher-than-anybody-else's
> prices merchandise.  I use it purely for PayPoint purchases where the
> price is exactly the same as I'd
> pay anywhere else.  I even get 5% off cashback under that discount scheme!
> --
> Paul
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