[Tagging] Cycling "service area"

Mon Feb 19 00:47:30 UTC 2018

TL;DR - highway=wayside_station  ? 

~~~~~~~ 

> On Feb 19, 2018, at 12:40 AM, Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> At present the wiki says that highway=services is mainly for motorways and similar roads, but we have many places now that look like highway=services, but are on single carriageway roads and offer similar  services, but are tagged as amenity=fuel.
> 

Japan has these too, growing from the “Road Station” idea. there are over 1000 registered road stations. many of them are on heavily trafficked trunk roads, so in urban areas, it is probably a massive 40m wide road, but they are also found on narrow single carriageway roads high in the mountains, for people coming to or going through the mountains to popular destinations. 

All of them are registered with the government, which I bring up not to validate them - but one of the requirements to me of a “Service Area” - a singularly named place that says “I am a Service Area”. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadside_station <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadside_station>
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%81%93%E3%81%AE%E9%A7%85 <https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/>

The Japanese road Stations are all called “Michi-no-eki”  literally a "station of the road". often written as “Michi-no-eki Foobar” or "Road Station Foobar” in english.  People know that it is a place to stop. While they may not have gasoline (trunk roads have gasoline stands along the road), they basically offer the other amenities of a service area in a singularly named location. 

the creator of the english wikipedia page says Japan “officially” translates them as “roadside stations"

We got into (well, I got into) a long discussion about how to tag road_stations last year, with:

Tomoya saying they are simply named landuse=retail, since they usually do not offer gasoline, making them ineligible to be highway=services.
I said they need their own subtag, highway=services & services=road_station, as they are a variant to me. 
Paul saying highway=services retail=road_station might work. 

I quoted the entire last email at the end. 

Perhaps  we should make highway=wayside_station to cover all of the transportation methods. this would avoid the trouble with ‘Service_area” confusion. you can apply it to a landuse=retail or whatever environment your wayside_station happens to be.  

his would also give a proper tag to non-motorway stops that fit into the same traveller focused area that is way adjacent, using landuse=retail to show it’s operating many shops under a single POI, with separate communal public restrooms and eating area (shelter) denoted by the highway=wayside_station aspect. 

This “communal amenity use” distinction is present in other tags - a road lined with individual shops is different than a mall, an amusement park is a collection of attractions.  It is a distinction I don’t want to overlook when tagging these kind of places. 

Javbw 

Quoted email From Paul, Jan 27th 2017

Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 7:34 PM, John Willis <johnw at mac.com <mailto:johnw at mac.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:45 AM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org <mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Usually just a vending machine in a cage and some overused, under-maintained toilets and lots of parking.
>> 
>> 
>> yea, i’m more familiar with the view points (Interstate 5 near camp Pendleton) and that style of crap rest area near Castaic lake. Maybe the map stop on interstate 8 as you come into san diego. I have driven 300,000 miles in California, and those are the 3 I can name.  they are usually barren dirty places you stop at only if you have to.
> 
> I wouldn't say that's typical of CalTrans rest areas to be that horrible.  Randolph Collier <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.8532&mlon=-122.5724#map=16/41.8532/-122.5724&layers=G> seems like it may have been a small state park with campground at one point, it's quite nice.  Solano Westbound <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=38.2294&mlon=-122.1176#map=15/38.2295/-122.1176&layers=G> is a little bit of a dirty trick, though.  If you're in the middle of a transcontinental drive and heavily loaded, you're going to have to stop there because you probably need to let the engine cool off a bit after the long climb up from the California Valley to the east; good taco truck, understandably rekt restrooms, in no small part of being in the middle of the suburbs of an unbelievably spread out metropolis.  You can see all the way to the Pacific Ocean from there, so worth stopping if you haven't made the trip, even if you don't need the restroom.  Westley <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=37.5815&mlon=-121.3232#map=14/37.5815/-121.3232&layers=G> is also a good one.
> 
> Castaic sucks.  I don't know what is with the maintenance at that one, but it's uncharacteristically bad for CalTrans rest areas (and granted, I have a low expectation).  You're better off stopping at the truck stops in Gorman or continuing to the truck stops in actual Castaic Lake.  Though I would tend to lean towards truck stops being a form of service plaza, since they tend to be functionally identical to the turnpike ones except for lacking their own dedicated motorway ramps.
>  
>> all the SA/PA/ road stations are places you hope you can stop at here in Japan. They are usually very nice.  
>> I have stopped at 20 different SA/PA in Japan in the last month. I have been to.. 15 road stations (?) in 5 years. They are so different. 
> 
> I'm literally drawing a blank on this relative to a (very small, maybe equivalent to a 1950's-era North American tourist-trap type) truck/travel stop.
>  
>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:08 PM, tomoya muramoto <muramototomoya at gmail.com <mailto:muramototomoya at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just think Michi-no-eki is not "highway=*" category
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Road stations are specifically made for driving tourists in the same manner as an SA/PA, so they are in the same category.
>> 
>> Both SA and PA are in the road space, as should road stations. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The wiki for rest_area shows some lonely picnic benches - not a row of shops selling food and souvenirs. the  
>> 
>> The new PA (a rest area) on the Kita-kanto is this: a little bit of grass, a vending machine, and a nice toilets.  
> 
> Easy enough.  highway=rest_area toilets=yes/no
>  
>> I would never consider the two road stations I linked to in the same class: 2 restaurants, a motorcycle museum, a souvenir shop, etc. 
>> 
>> Maybe this is because there is such a huge disparity between a rest_area in the US and a nice road station
> 
> In my mind based on this thread, I'd be inclined to tag a road station as highway=services
>  
>> The rest_area wiki page: 
>> 
>>> Some are set further back in the form of short loops of service road, and may feature mobile fast food outlets, toilets etc.
>> 
>> To me, the presence of shops and amenities vs a lonely toilet is a big difference,  But t seems that gasoline is the dividing line between =services and =rest_area. 
>> 
>> perhaps the combination of:
>> 
>> highway=rest_area
>> +
>> retail=road_station 
>> 
>> is a good solution. 
> 
> Maybe highway=services retail=road_station .  My understanding of a rest area would leave me quite surprised to find more than a parking area and maybe a toilet, likewise, if I were looking for a service area, I wouldn't think to search rest areas. 

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