[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse=governmental

Allan Mustard allan at mustard.net
Sat Nov 24 15:20:53 UTC 2018

I don't think OSM should be in the business of writing its own
dictionary and defining terms independently of the rest of society. 
That's a slippery slope.

If a bank is a bank, it's a bank.  If it is part of the banking system
and is regulated as a bank, it's a bank. If we want to differentiate
retail banks offering services to consumers from other types of banks
with an additional tag, that's great--but that doesn't mean banks that
offer different types of services are not banks because the OSM wiki
says so.  If it isn't a bank (a savings and loan, or credit union, or
Aunt Matilda loaning money to her neighbors), it isn't a bank.


On 11/24/2018 7:51 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> Nobody is going to dispute that Central Bank can be considered as a
> bank (see name).
> But amenity=bank if for places that perform bank-like services for
> public - it excludes some
> banks and includes some companies that technically are not banks.
> 24. Nov 2018 15:31 by allan at mustard.net <mailto:allan at mustard.net>:
>     Here, I just looked up "bank" on 411.com (online directory
>     assistance) for Kansas City, Missouri:
>     https://www.411.com/business/MO/Kansas-city/bank
>     and guess what, Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, the Kansas
>     City branch of America's central bank, is listed...
>     https://www.411.com/business/MO/Kansas%20City/federal-reserve-bank-of-kc/b-13fzpij
>     Try it for Washington, D.C.,
>     https://www.411.com/business?key=Bank&utf8=%E2%9C%93&where=Washington%2C+DC
>     and see how many non-retail banks you get under the directory
>     assistance rubric of "bank" :-) 
>     apm-wa
>     On 11/24/2018 3:08 PM, Warin wrote:
>         Most people are non-experts in most things. The map should be
>         made for most people, so that most people can use it.
>         And most people would expect something mapped as a bank to be
>         available for their use.
>         Much like a cafe or a pub. They would not expect it to be only
>         for certain groups of institutions.
>         The intent with amenity=bank is a financial institution
>         offering services to the public.
>         Read https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbank
>         That OSMwiki page suggest using office=financial for other
>         'banks' that do not accept the public.
>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:office%3Dfinancial
>         Perhaps this OSMwiki office=financial definition could be
>         expanded to accept 'central banks'.
>         On 24/11/18 18:24, Allan Mustard wrote:
>             Sounds to me like the OSM wiki article in question was
>             written by a non-expert in banking and finance and should
>             be corrected/expanded.
>             Cheers, apm-wa
>             Sent from my iPhone
>             On Nov 24, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar
>             <seav80 at gmail.com <mailto:seav80 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>                 On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 12:45 AM Allan Mustard
>                 <allan at mustard.net <mailto:allan at mustard.net>> wrote:
>                     Well, a central bank is a bank, after all, whether
>                     it is owned by the government or is a "private"
>                     parastatal organization.Р’  I would tag it as
>                     amenity=bank since it is a bank.Р’  Not all banks
>                     offer consumer services, so the fact that an
>                     individual cannot open an account in a central
>                     bank doesn't disqualify it.Р’  Individuals cannot
>                     open accounts in the Bank for International
>                     Settlements, either, but it is a bank.Р’  A
>                     central bank is a specialized bank that serves the
>                     government (controls the monetary system) and the
>                     commercial banking sector.Р’  That's why it is
>                     called a "central" bank.
>                     >Р’  It also wouldn't be tagged as a bank, because
>                     it doesn't have accounts & you can't go in &
>                     deposit / withdraw cash, or take out a loan.
>                     Maybe you and I cannot, but the commercial banks
>                     in that country can.Р’  It's a bank.
>                 While central banks are certainly banks in and of
>                 themselves, I think tagging central banks as plain
>                 amenity=bank *without other qualifying tags* is a
>                 tricky one, and might constitute as expanding the
>                 definition of what amenity=bank is on the OSM wiki.
>                 The OSM wiki states that an amenity=bank feature is
>                 aР’  "financial establishment where customers can,
>                 among other services, deposit and withdraw money, take
>                 loans, make investments and transfer funds". I would
>                 think that the word "customer" in OSM is intended to
>                 refer to people and regular businesses, and this is
>                 why such establishments are under the amenity=* key.
>                 Unlike regular banks, central banks usually only have
>                 other banks and their government as their sole
>                 customers and in many countries, central banks act as
>                 a regulatory agency for banks and other financial
>                 institutions, set country-wide fiscal policies like
>                 interest rates, and print/mint their countries'
>                 currencies. It therefore makes sense to tag central
>                 banks somewhat differently from other banks.
>                 I would also like to note that in my country, we do
>                 have a central bank, but we also have two
>                 100%-government owned commercial banks, established by
>                 law, that I would not hesitate to tag as amenity=bank
>                 because they offer financial services to the public at
>                 large.
>                 As for the current proposal, in my country, we
>                 currently tag central bank land as landuse=commercial.
>                 It might make sense to switch this to
>                 landuse=governmental (or some other keyword as may be
>                 decided by OSM) if this proposal pushes through.
>                 ~Eugene
>                 Р’ 
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