[Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Colin Smale colin.smale at xs4all.nl
Sat Sep 15 15:37:48 UTC 2018


Joseph, I have to admit I am getting a bit lost as to what you are
trying to define with this proposal. Whatever tagging we end up with,
who is the target audience? What are the use cases? Is it an aid to
interpreting and pronouncing the contents of the "name" tag? Is it a
(strong) hint to mappers about how to synthesize multilingual labels? Is
it documenting the official languages, or the popular spoken languages,
or what? 

Take Brussels for example. Officially bilingual for political reasons,
in practice large parts are essentially French-only. Composite street
names can be nl - fr or fr - nl. Can I suggest we work through Belgium
as a case study, and when there is a proposal to suit Belgium, we then
cross-check with e.g. Switzerland, Morocco, Spain or whatever?

On 2018-09-15 17:15, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

> Re: "How about "name:language_order=fr;nl"? No confusion possible there, whereas "name:language=fr;nl" would not specify the order, unless you define the list of languages to be an ordered list, which AFAIK would be a new concept to OSM." 
> 
> In Brussels they would actually like to be able to display the two languages neutrally, without a set display order. I don't think a display order specification is necessary. That information is already in the default "name=*" tag 
> 
> "Is it intended to be only for street names? If so, highway:name:language=* might be required to make that clear. Or does everything that can have a name need to fit in with this?" 
> 
> Not only streets. Everything with a name=* tag has the same issues 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:02 PM Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote: 
> 
> On 2018-09-15 15:18, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: 
> 
> Re: "A default should not require multiple values! It is the single value to be used in the absence of an explicit value. If you think you need multiple defaults, see my comment above about different contexts." 
> 
> The idea is to allow a community to choose 2 languages to be displayed together as the default language setting, if so desired. If you check out the Multilingual Names wiki page [1], there are places where people choose to standardize the default name=* be a combination of two languages or two encodings; eg  fr + nl in Brussels, or Arabic + French in Moroco. If this is going to be adopted by the folks in Belgium, Morocco etc, there should be the choice of specifying two (or 3) languages, to fit with their current preference.  
> 
> How about "name:language_order=fr;nl"? No confusion possible there, whereas "name:language=fr;nl" would not specify the order, unless you define the list of languages to be an ordered list, which AFAIK would be a new concept to OSM. 
> 
> I'm not trying to change the way the default name=* tag is used, just trying to make it more useful by tagging what language is actually being used in the value for the name key. And I suspect there may be more communities that will choose this option, to encourage displaying names both in the local langauge and in the official or national language. 
> 
> So your idea is only for multilingual areas? Seems a bit of a waste. Combine this with "name:language=fr" in Wallonia, "name:language=nl" in Flanders, "name:language=de" in the Ostkantons, and "name:language=fr;nl" in Brussels? 
> 
> Is it intended to be only for street names? If so, highway:name:language=* might be required to make that clear. Or does everything that can have a name need to fit in with this? 
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Links:
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[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
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