[Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

[Warin]

On 16/09/18 01:37, Colin Smale wrote:
>
> Joseph, I have to admit I am getting a bit lost as to what you are 
> trying to define with this proposal. Whatever tagging we end up with, 
> who is the target audience? What are the use cases? Is it an aid to 
> interpreting and pronouncing the contents of the "name" tag? Is it a 
> (strong) hint to mappers about how to synthesize multilingual labels? 
> Is it documenting the official languages, or the popular spoken 
> languages, or what?
>
> Take Brussels for example. Officially bilingual for political reasons, 
> in practice large parts are essentially French-only. Composite street 
> names can be nl - fr or fr - nl. Can I suggest we work through Belgium 
> as a case study, and when there is a proposal to suit Belgium, we then 
> cross-check with e.g. Switzerland, Morocco, Spain or whatever?
>

If you want an extreme case then Papua New Guinea has over 820 
languages.. all in one country.
They have 3 official languages, usage varies depending on what you are.
Documenting them would also be a challenge.
The amount of work vs the people who will use the data?
For PNG I don't see the work = the benefit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea#Languages

>
> On 2018-09-15 17:15, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>
>> Re: "How about "name:language_order=fr;nl"? No confusion possible 
>> there, whereas "name:language=fr;nl" would not specify the order, 
>> unless you define the list of languages to be an ordered list, which 
>> AFAIK would be a new concept to OSM."
>> In Brussels they would actually like to be able to display the two 
>> languages neutrally, without a set display order. I don't think a 
>> display order specification is necessary. That information is already 
>> in the default "name=*" tag
>> "Is it intended to be only for street names? If so, 
>> highway:name:language=* might be required to make that clear. Or does 
>> everything that can have a name need to fit in with this?"
>> Not only streets. Everything with a name=* tag has the same issues
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:02 PM Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl 
>> <mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 2018-09-15 15:18, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>>
>>         Re: "A default should not require multiple values! It is the
>>         single value to be used in the absence of an explicit value.
>>         If you think you need multiple defaults, see my comment above
>>         about different contexts."
>>         The idea is to allow a community to choose 2 languages to be
>>         displayed together as the default language setting, if so
>>         desired. If you check out the Multilingual Names wiki page
>>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names>,
>>         there are places where people choose to standardize the
>>         default name=* be a combination of two languages or two
>>         encodings; eg  fr + nl in Brussels, or Arabic + French in
>>         Moroco. If this is going to be adopted by the folks in
>>         Belgium, Morocco etc, there should be the choice of
>>         specifying two (or 3) languages, to fit with their current
>>         preference.
>>
>>     How about "name:language_order=fr;nl"? No confusion possible
>>     there, whereas "name:language=fr;nl" would not specify the order,
>>     unless you define the list of languages to be an ordered list,
>>     which AFAIK would be a new concept to OSM.
>>
>>         I'm not trying to change the way the default name=* tag is
>>         used, just trying to make it more useful by tagging what
>>         language is actually being used in the value for the name
>>         key. And I suspect there may be more communities that will
>>         choose this option, to encourage displaying names both in the
>>         local langauge and in the official or national language.
>>
>>     So your idea is only for multilingual areas? Seems a bit of a
>>     waste. Combine this with "name:language=fr" in Wallonia,
>>     "name:language=nl" in Flanders, "name:language=de" in the
>>     Ostkantons, and "name:language=fr;nl" in Brussels?
>>     Is it intended to be only for street names? If so,
>>     highway:name:language=* might be required to make that clear. Or
>>     does everything that can have a name need to fit in with this?
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Tagging mailing list
>>     Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20180916/d5c9512a/attachment.html>