[Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz at tutanota.com
Sun Nov 10 19:41:28 UTC 2019

10 Nov 2019, 18:50 by pla16021 at gmail.com:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:33, Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoniecz at tutanota.com <mailto:matkoniecz at tutanota.com>> > wrote:
>> Are you claiming that there is some consistent difference between
>> shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream in real tagging by mappers?
> I would hesitate to claim that mappers tag anything consistently. 
I am thinking about like amenity=restaurant vs amenity=fast_food
Exact border differs and on edge there is no strict consistency but
there is useful distinction between amenity=restaurant and amenity=fast_food

>From what I know that there is no such useful difference between
amenity=ice_cream and shop=ice_cream (or phone=* / contact:phone=* or 
some other pairs of tags)

> What I am claiming
> is that there are places where you go inside, sit down, and order an ice cream to
> eat whilst seated.  I am claiming that there are other places which have no facilities
> for sitting, where you buy an ice cream that you take outside and consume elsewhere.
> These differences exist in reality. 
I fully agree with this.

>  How they have been mapped, especially when the
> wiki page is misleading, is another matter.
I am unaware about any tagging scheme used to distinguish between them,
I am aware about claims that it was supposed to be covered by
amenity=ice_cream and shop=ice_cream but for me it seems that in real
use there is no difference between this two tags.

>> Are you sure that mappers are consistently using this two tags in this ways?
> I am not sure about mappers doing anything consistently.
Well, places where you can buy ice cream are not tagged amenity=prison,
there is some level where you can say "consensus among mappers is that".

>> Because I am not noticing this effect at all, but maybe it is a local anomaly.
> Maybe it is mappers in countries which do not have both types of facility and
> erroneously conclude the tags are synonyms, aided by misleading wiki pages.
In Poland we have both types of places.

>> But given that shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream do not have
>> any clear difference based on tags I would be highly surprised that there
>> is any real difference in meaning.
> I think it unlikely that anyone who has encountered both types of establishment would
> conclude that the same tag equally describes both.
See my reply to quotation above, as what you noticed below about Wikipedia. 

>   I'll grant you that the Wikipedia
> page for ice cream parlours includes establishments that are takeaway only, but I'm
> not sure if that truly reflects US usage.

> Here is an image search > https://www.google.com/search?q=ice+cream+kiosk+seaside&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7qvnPmeDlAhUEQhUIHXcGAoEQsAR6BAgJEAE <https://www.google.com/search?q=ice+cream+kiosk+seaside&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7qvnPmeDlAhUEQhUIHXcGAoEQsAR6BAgJEAE>
> which shows mosly ice cream kiosks which are takeaway only.  I would not refer to those
> as ice cream parlours.
I agree here that there is difference between ice cream kiosk and ice cream parlour.
I would not be claiming that shop=ice_cream_kiosk and amenity=ice_cream_parlour
have no clear differences, but we have shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream
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