[Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Paul Allen pla16021 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 11 13:35:41 UTC 2019

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 09:49, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>

Note I didn't write a bar cannot have seats, I wrote it isn't a strict
> requirement, while it is for pubs I would say.

>From my experiences, seats are normally present in both, the difference
between the two
being the types of drinks commonly offered and the prices.  In other
countries it may be
different.  More important is that pubs and bars are places where people
congregate to
consume the products they buy there.

> I don't find the analogy with alcohol very useful, it is a different topic
> and the situation varies even more than for ice cream according to the
> contryspecific situation (and because alcohol is generally considered more
> "drug" than ice cream is, and because religious rules come into play when
> it is about alcohol, etc.).

Yes, they are different because of the legal situation.  Which is why I
said the parallels were
not exact.  Where they do match, though, is that you have a shop where you
buy stuff to
take out of the shop and a place where people congregate to consume stuff
they have
bought there.  I think these are important distinctions: consume on the
premises or off
the premises.  They are different operating models and customers have

> You seem to refer to the British situation, frankly, I do not know what an
> "off-license" is. Germany for example is notably infamous for having very
> lax alcohol regulation (cheap and available everywhere).

Pub: place selling alcohol for consumption on the premises.  A place people
socially to consume the alcohol they buy there.  Usually also permitted to
sell alcohol to
take away.

Supermarket: place selling many different things which may include
alcohol.  If alcohol is
sold it may only be consumed off the premises.  A place people don't (apart
from some of
the idiots in my town) congregate socially.  A place where consumption of
any type of
food or drink on the premises (other than in an in-store cafe, if it has
one) results in ejection.

Off-licence: place selling only alcohol, or alcohol is the primary product
sold.  Alcohol may
only be consumed off the premises.  That is the terms of its LICENCE, that
the alcohol be
consumed OFF the premises, hence "off-licence."

The distinction that I find important is between ice cream made in an
> artisanal fashion (like cakes, pastry) vs. ice cream that is produced
> industrially, and then for the latter maybe the distinction between
> portioned ice cream like here

I don't find that an important distinction at all.  A secondary
characteristic at best.  Not one
that distinguishes a shop from an amenity.

My tag for artisanal ice_cream places would be something like "craft=*"
> (meaning the ice cream is made on the premises) and I have also been using
> "restaurant:type:it=gelateria" for them.

Craft can be added as a node if the amenity or shop makes the stuff on the

I don't understand your reasoning here, because I would clearly see these
> (some) kind of ice cream parlours as a subclass of cafe: they have a coffee
> machine, they have table service, they often also sell other stuff that is
> not ice cream (not speaking about "meals" here, but about "drinks").

For better or worse, shop=cafe is documented as selling beverages AND light
meals, and this
is how it is understood in British English.

> also this really depends, I would not expect bacon sandwiches to be found
> in a cafe in Germany (could be, but the expectation for me would be table
> service and selling coffee and cakes),

 I used "bacon sandwich" as an example of a light meal.  I would expect a
cafe to sell light
meals, even if that is limited to pre-packed sandwiches.  In the UK people
who used a search
facility to look for a cafe would be disappointed if they went and found it
sold only ice cream.
Perhaps when you're in a strange place and want lunch you'd be happy eating
just ice cream
but many people would not.

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