[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Pumping proposal

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Sat Nov 21 05:40:39 UTC 2020

The current tagging of man_made=water_well + pump=no/manual/powered is
currently used by the HDM style, featured as the "Humanitarian" map layer
on Openstreetmap.org, to determine what sort of icon should be shown for a
water well. Examples:

- well with powered pump (and you can see 3 more nearby, one for each
"dusun" or small "neighborhood" in this village)

- lots of wells with no pump, represented by a bucket, also one powered
well in this village.

- water well with a manual pump in a school yard - also another one in the
school to the east.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:19 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>

> On the Talk page, the proposal author has now ignored two different
> requests to change the new pump=values to a different key like
> pump_mechanism, which would allow the continued use of pump=manual and
> pump=powered.
> The author claims: "I find current tagging meaningless (with all due
> respect to people who created it in the past)"
> This is absolutely disrespectful to the current mappers using this tag to
> specify the type of water well found in lower-income countries.
> Perhaps you have never lived in a place where people get their drinking
> and washing water from public or semi-public wells. In these places it is
> quite important to know if a well is just a hole in the ground where you
> need to use a bucket and rope to draw out water (pump=no), or if there is a
> mechanical pump handle which you can physically operate, with some amount
> of force, to pump out bursts of water (pump=manual).
> And the other type of well is "a well that is attached to pipes and a
> motorized pump", which is usually powered by electricity but sometimes by a
> diesel motor. In this type of well you don't have to use any physical
> effort at all, you just flip a switch or open a faucet and water comes out
> - as most Westerners are accustomed to enjoy in their own homes.
> But you will need electricity or fuel to operate it. So usually a
> man_made=water_well + pump=powered is much more convenient, but when the
> power goes out or there is no fuel, it can be nearly useless, while a
> pump=manual is now much more helpful.
> I am quite frustrated that this proposal has gone forward even though
> these concerns were brought up months ago on the Talk page.
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 4:23 AM François Lacombe <
> fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Mateusz,
>> Proposal goes through different stages and I was proposing simpler
>> driver=* instead of mechanical_driver. Comments have been made about the
>> possible confusion with human drivers driving cars.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal#Consider_drivers_as_pump_specific_devices
>> However, drivers aren't specific to pumps at all.
>> Current pump=* doesn't deal with pumps but with water wells and possible
>> motors/engines installed to get water. I was confused by this in the very
>> beginning.
>> pump=powered mixes electric motors and gasoline engines which are way
>> different. Situations may occur with emergency services coming with
>> gasoline to run an electric motor for instance.
>> The opportunity (not an obligation) to replace this particular value with
>> more detailed and useful information is the goal of the proposal.
>> One possible way to state the isn't manually operable is to use handle=no
>> without any mechanical_driver (waiting to be defined by knowledgeable
>> people)
>> All the best
>> François
>> Le ven. 20 nov. 2020 à 12:22, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
>> tagging at openstreetmap.org> a écrit :
>>> I am not a fan of deprecating
>>> pump=manual and replacing it with nearly impossible to remember and less
>>> clear
>>> mechanical_driver=manual
>>> Also, this proposal deprecates pump=powered without providing replacement
>>> Now to tag this info one is supposed to select value from
>>> reciprocating_solenoid
>>> combustion_engine
>>> electric_motor
>>> cylinder
>>> turbine
>>> and no way to tag equivalent of pump=powered is provided.
>>> Mapper may be uninterested in or unable to get info about technical
>>> detail,
>>> but they should be still able to tag info that pump is not manually
>>> operated.
>>> Nov 19, 2020, 20:05 by fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com:
>>> Hi all
>>> Tonight I'm pleased to announce the start of voting for the tagging
>>> proposal about pumps
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>>> A lot of comments lead us to an interesting tagging for pumps devices,
>>> water wells and wind pumps. Thank you to anyone involved in this review.
>>> Some values are proposed to be deprecated as to classify pumps according
>>> to their technologies and capabilities.
>>> Several contributors tested the proposed tags in real conditions and no
>>> problem seems to remain.
>>> Feel free to give your opinion until December 3
>>> All the best
>>> François
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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