[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Couloir 2
Bert -Araali- Van Opstal
bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Sun Feb 21 22:44:45 UTC 2021
No offence Florimond, I didn't feel personally addressed, although I
said I could and others might felt the same.
In regard to your rules of thumb I'de like to refer back to Frederik
Ramms general comment on this talk group and a growing aversion from the
community in regard to the endless discussions and the relevance of our
tagging guidelines and wiki content.
Although I just recently became a member of this group, I am on OSM
since 2015 and soon reaching 4.000.000 non contested edits.
There is a growing aversion from the community regarding:
- the culture of just launching disapproval of proposals, ongoing
discussions without constructive alternatives to the writers how it
could be improved;
- the tendency that is growing, for many members in this group, to
participate in every discussion just for the sake they like discussions,
it's their hobby;
- the sometimes near abusive language or discrimination due to the fact
that some members, because they are long time active members in this
group, consider their personal views or rules of thumb "the standard".
In my view there is just one standard: everyone is free to map and tag
the way they see fit. Everyone should be heard and respected, regardless
of being a specialist, a cartographer, a scientist, of higher eduction
or no education. There are no assigned gatekeepers, neither should
anyone feel himself to take up this role because he is here long time,
is a large contributor etc..., we all are gatekeepers and go for the
common good, the common ground and the compromise which you will have to
try to achieve, every tagging guideline is a compromise. It will never
be perfect, it will never be complete, but if you like to contribute and
improve OSM, to create guidance in the growing "mess" as some call it,
the wiki and the tagging, to assure the future nd relevance of OSM, a
change in culture, we are in need to create a more positive,
constructive and consensus culture here. There is no lack on creativity
if I may say so.
I think the proposal process is very good and mature, and it might be
even in some cases, like giving guidance that you should consider
everyone's opposition, a bit to far. To my opinion, very constructive
comments were given, by me and others. There was no undermining of the
proposal process.
Please, from a new member in this group, as a member of the
under-represented African community, but born, raised and for 30 years a
team leader and manager in European and International projects, having
read and researched many comments, from OSM pioneers, from long time
members, from the African community and many friends I made over the
years all over the world, the culture how we discuss, how we come to a
consensus, needs to change, this group is nearing a point where it
becomes completely irrelevant to the majority of the community,
including all the work it has produced over the years, the whole wiki,
and that would be a very bad evolution, creating an even bigger "mess".
For the pioneers who worked hard to create OSM for what it is now, for
this group and for the OSM community as a whole, we need a change in RFC
and proposal culture, not in the policies or guidelines.
Of course I can tag as I like, but it doesn't mean because I can I
should. I came here to become a part of a community, a worldwide
community where everyone is respected. I came here not to tag or map as
I want, but to contribute for the greater good, for others who see my
work - OUR work - as useful, an example how a democracy and mutual
respect can really produce data and is able to self-governance, to
produce hopefully everlasting impact and data, for the whole world.
That said, I didn't feel personally offended Florimond.
Greetings,
Bert Araali
On 21/02/2021 20:43, Florimond Berthoux wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>
> I don't know why you take it personally, I just state a rule of thumb
> to avoid :
> - losing others time and energy
> - behaving as gatekeeper
> - undermine proposal process.
>
> Anyhow : any tag you like :)
>
>
> Le ven. 19 févr. 2021 à 19:45, Bert -Araali- Van Opstal
> <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
> <mailto:bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com>> a écrit :
>
> Did I say I am not interested ? I clearly am, that's why I feel to
> participate in a constructive and helpful way . I said I was not a
> specialist, same as you state you are not a specialist ! Stop
> making remarks to exclude people from discussions or oppose
> anyone's right to vote. It might insult them, don't use it as a
> tool to support someone's opinion, against or in favour of a
> proposal or your personal opinion.
> The tag documentation is not there to be a dictionary, true, it is
> there to explain when and how to use them. So it needs
> clarification why you use a particular English, and in this case
> adopted from French word, to identify a mapping feature, so
> non-native English users or in this case maybe non-native French
> speakers can understand it and can translate it properly. The
> reason it was adopted from French means there was no suitable
> equivalent English term. So the French speaking community members
> should support and encourage it's use not by default think it's
> clear to me, it's my language, so it doesn't need a clear
> justification why I consider it should be used here.
>
> Cordialement,
>
> Bert Araali
>
> On 19/02/2021 20:55, Florimond Berthoux wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not a specialist at all, though I wonder if a couloir is may
>> be more a way than a ’natural’.
>> I mean we call that a couloir (corridor) because people use it as
>> a way to climb the mountain.
>> Like other kind of corridor, a boat corridor, corridor between
>> two territories etc, a narrow path.
>>
>> PS: I agree, people not interested in using the proposed tag
>> should abstain from voting.
>> And OSM Tag documentation is not here to define words.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Le jeu. 18 févr. 2021 à 20:41, pierrick pratter via Tagging
>> <tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>> a
>> écrit :
>>
>> |Voting has started for Couloir 2.
>> |https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/couloir_2||
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Florimond Berthoux
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20210222/298e8ebe/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the Tagging
mailing list