[Tagging] Let's not turn the tagging list into the Monty Python Argument Sketch (was: Deprecation - waterway=riverbank vs water=river)

Bert -Araali- Van Opstal bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Sat Mar 6 15:57:10 UTC 2021


I am struggling with mixed feelings of what is happening here.

Is it sad, yes, to how the gatekeepers mentality or the search for 
conformation of popularity or need to control and domination is used to 
increase cultural differences, as a tool to acknowledge or grow 
political interests or differences.

Is it funny, yes, how people are using this forum, the wiki, voting in 
interests groups in favour or against proposals or practices. Calling 
for moderation. Calling for action by the DWG. etc... and not seeing by 
doing so that they are acting against the basic values that OSM is based 
upon, practising and acting against what they are trying to promote or 
stand for.
Free and open, a community effort, with none or minimal governance where 
we value and respect each other.
There is a need in change how this group acts, how it drives people 
apart instead of bringing them together, make guidelines for the common 
good.  Get things done by working together, be open and understanding, 
RESPECT. Because this group, and also the wiki, what is happening here 
AND in the wiki, makes it irrelevant.
Calling for governance makes it irrelevant, shows that what it has 
become a playing field for competing, not contributing to coherence and 
representative for the broader community.

Talk to each other, listen to each others motivations, why did someone 
or a group "violate" in your opinion the common good, unification, 
freedom and openness, understand and communicate, and then come up with 
a joint "incident" description, how you came to understand each other, 
respect each other and advise to the community by example, how you 
resolved it, through respect, acknowledgement of misperceptions, 
misconduct, understanding each others frustrations, so this forum and 
this wiki becomes again a guide, an open and friendly space for all, for 
the community.

I, and many who contacted me privately about this particular "incident", 
what was noticed on the wiki and how it was handled in this group, many 
of us, would appreciate both parties to resolve their issues privately 
and then report back describing "the issue", then come back to the 
community, with a JOINT description about this "incident" or "conflict" 
and how you JOINTLY found a compromise and have a constructive advise to 
the community.

Thank you, wish you all lots of courage and creativity, UNITE, don't DIVIDE.

Bert Araali

On 06/03/2021 17:39, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging wrote:
> Saturday, March 6, 2021 8:30 AM -06:00 from Tomas Straupis 
> <tomasstraupis at gmail.com>:
>  I will only add that to me the saddest thing is not one tag or the
> other but the lack of ANY*governance* whatsoever which allows us -
> OpenStreetMap - to get to such a bad situation in the first place.
> So then lets form an editorial board that would take this away from 
> the DWG and put it in the hands of
> a voting body.
>
>     Saturday, March 6, 2021 8:30 AM -06:00 from Tomas Straupis
>     <tomasstraupis at gmail.com>:
>     2021-03-06, št, 16:11 Andy Townsend rašė:
>     > Firstly at
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2021-March/060317.html
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2021-March/060317.html>
>     ,
>     > Tomas makes two statements which he says are a corollary of what
>     I've said
>     > but which really aren't. I don't agree with those statements and
>     I doubt anyone
>     > else on the DWG would either. Maybe he was trying to make a
>     joke, but if
>     > so it (a) isn't funny and (b) isn't helpful.
>
>       Sorry, Andy, that was I joke, but until we get into the ministry of
>     silly tags... :-) I'm not going to do the things Brian did because I
>     think that is wrong in general. And I do understand that Andy (or DWG)
>     cannot solve this problem as it's roots are beyond tags.
>
>       I guess Christoph has made a very good point about all this "saga"
>     further decreasing the quality of OSM data. Unfortunately majority
>     will never understand it.
>
>       I will only add that to me the saddest thing is not one tag or the
>     other but the lack of ANY governance whatsoever which allows us -
>     OpenStreetMap - to get to such a bad situation in the first place.
>
>     --
>     Tomas
>
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