[talk-ph] Tagging bridges and tunnels

Ronny Ager-Wick ronny at ager-wick.com
Thu Feb 19 03:01:31 UTC 2015

Hi, Pierre,

Thanks for the reply. It seems to me that when a road has a ref tag, the
itinerary calculator generally ignores street names, including the one given
to the Abacan Bridge. This may make sense in Europe and the US, but here it's
actually quite confusing.
The ref (R-9 fo MacArthur Highway) is generally not used outside of the
mapping community, and hardly within I believe. If I ask 500 random people on
the street in Angeles City where R-9 or R-8 is, I doubt a single one would
know. Furthermore, I can't remember seeing a single sign along a road stating
the ref. The ideal displayed name for this road would be "MacArthur Highway" -
that's what everyone calls it. Same for R-9, which is known as "NLEX", or
simply "the expressway". Is there a way to make that happen, but still not tag
for display purposes? Could we simply remove the ref tag entirely, maybe
renaming it to "future_ref" or something awaiting the local government
actually putting up signs so that people are aware of it (likely to take
decades)? If we're supposed to map reality, the ref tag, at least outside of
Metro Manila, does not reflect it at the moment.

Also, the itinerary calculator unfortunately doesn't seem to handle
roundabouts very well. Or are they incorrectly tagged? If I was to give that
itinerary description to someone, I am sure they would get lost, as I can
hardly think of a more complicated way to describe an essentially straight
piece of road. Knowing I might have been tagging incorrectly in this area
myself, is there any way we could tag this differently to improve the routing?

Ideally this stretch would be described as:
Follow MacArthur Highway
Turn slight right onto Abacan Bridge
Turn slight left onto MacArthur Highway (or better, "Take 3rd exit in the
roundabout onto MacArthur Highway", but this may be hard if the routing
software doesn't know it's a roundabout...)
Reach destination.


On 2015-02-19 09:33, Pierre Béland wrote:
> Hi Ronny,
> I thought of using the new itinary calculation crossing the  Abacan bridge.
> I can see from the map in this area that in Philippines, like elsewhere, ref
> tag is used for roads (here ref=R-9).
> See the link for the itinary
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=15.1682%2C120.5893%3B15.1426%2C120.5962#map=15/15.1554/120.5929
> With OSRM, it does show the ref-R-9 but do not report bridge crossing. With
> Mapquest, there is even less info.
> I wonder if OSMAnd on Android or any other road calculation software would
> report bridge crossing.
> Pierre
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De :* Ronny Ager-Wick <ronny at ager-wick.com>
> *À :* Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>; Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> *Cc :* OSM-PH <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>
> *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 18 février 2015 20h18
> *Objet :* Re: [talk-ph] Tagging bridges and tunnels
> This is a good point Eugene, and in fact the bridge names are very good
> landmarks, given that there are not many other signs on the roads in the
> Philippines, especially in rural areas. Another thing to take into
> consideration is that many bridges gain their name from the river they cross
> over, so there may be many bridges with the same name. They are definitely
> not tagged consistently at the moment, for example:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/15.15516/120.59219
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/15.15840/120.60712
> If I remember correctly, they are both named Abacan Bridge, but only one of
> them has that name on the map, and incidentally the one with a different
> road name on each side does not.
> Do you know if common routing software will pick up the bridge:name=* tag?
> Yes, I know we're not supposed to tag based on what current software will
> pick up, but it is interesting to know, given that bridges are such great
> landmarks.
> It would be great with a published suggested standard that fits the
> Philippine conditions.
> Ronny.
> On 2015-02-19 08:08, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>> Hi Pierre,
>> Most bridges here in the Philippines have names no matter how small. You
>> can usually spot their name on the guard rail or on a small sign just
>> before the bridge. These names are almost always accompanied by the maximum
>> load the bridge can handle (which is tagged using maxweight=*) and
>> sometimes with the distance from the island's zero-kilometer marker (I have
>> no idea how to tag these. Maybe distance=*?).
>> Some examples:
>> http://www.philippinesdailyphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bukidnon-atugan-bridge.jpg
>> http://www.zamboanga.com/z/images/0/09/Calapan_Bridge,_Calapan,_Kabasalan,_Zamboanga_Sibugay,_Philippines.JPG
>> http://static.rappler.com/images/tullahan-bridge-screengrab-20130708.jpg
>> Regards,
>> Eugene
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 1:59 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr
>> <mailto:pierzenh at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>>     Eugene,
>>     I expect that only the major bridges have name. And we generally refer
>>     to these by their name and not the road reference. Unless you have
>>     particularities in Philippines.
>>     Example Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco bay.
>>     OpenStreetMap | ‪Golden Gate Bridge‬ (‪52477381‬)
>>     <http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/52477381>
>>     Pierre
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *De :* Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com <mailto:seav80 at gmail.com>>
>>     *À :* Ervin Malicdem <schadow1 at gmail.com <mailto:schadow1 at gmail.com>>
>>     *Cc :* OSM-PH <talk-ph at openstreetmap.org
>>     <mailto:talk-ph at openstreetmap.org>>
>>     *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 18 février 2015 12h35
>>     *Objet :* Re: [talk-ph] Tagging bridges and tunnels
>>     Hi Ervin,
>>     Option 1 is what I do.
>>     Take note that if we have a way with highway=something and bridge=yes,
>>     then the object is primarily a highway/road and the bridge is only an
>>     aspect or property of the highway/road segment. Therefore, the name=*
>>     tag should be the name of the highway/road. And then put the name of
>>     the bridge on the bridge:name=* tag.
>>     Besides, it will be very weird to have a long highway with unconnected
>>     names just because there are bridges along the highway.
>>     The only time I would put the name of the bridge on the name=* tag is
>>     if the roads from both ends of the bridge have different names. For
>>     example, the bridge formerly called Del Pan in Manila:
>>     www.openstreetmap.org/way/4304674
>>     <http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4304674>
>>     ~Eugene
>>     On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Ervin Malicdem <schadow1 at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:schadow1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         Query regarding tagging bridges.
>>         What is the appropriate way of tagging bridges?
>>         Option1: Use the name of the road, and place the name of the bridge
>>         under bridge:name or the name of the tunnel under tunnel:name
>>         Option2: Use the name of the bridge/tunnel, omit the road name
>>         Thanks
>>         Ervin M.
>>         *Schadow1 Expeditions* - A Filipino must not be a stranger to his
>>         own motherland.
>>         http://www.s1expeditions.com <http://www.s1expeditions.com/>
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