[OSM-talk] YouthMappers/HOT (dis)organized editing.

Fri Dec 4 14:08:19 UTC 2020

Dear John, thank you for helping thinking about the issue.

you mention, at least I recognize, three points:

- planning the mapathon —and let me add— publish this in the wiki, in 
compliance to the Organized Editing Guidelines (OEG);

- matching the place to be mapped with the mappers available (that is 
either focus on the place to be mapped and establish who should help, or 
on the people to introduce to OSM and consequently select a suitable 
place.);

- validation and closing the project.

let me first recall the situation and the events, because I think that 
OSM should require HOT to review their practices, and that together we 
provide some guidance to such beginners chapters, possibly based on the 
above three points.

- when in 2018 HOT assigned the 4917 project to OSM user PANAMA Manuel 
Quintero, he had very limited experience and proved affinity with the 
OSM database and community;

- when in 2019 YouthMappers supported the activity in Guna Nega, they 
should have required the opening of a HOT project for the task;

- in 2020 the same should have happened —and they're still on time to do 
that— for the scattered emergency mapping in: Río Sereno-Río Guizado; 
Volcán-Cerro Punta-Barrio Guadalupe; Boquete-Palmira Abajo; Río 
Chiquito/Río Quiqui; Soloy; La Esperanza-San Valentín (falls in the 4917 
area);

- This chapter makes no attempt at contacting either the local or the 
broader OSM communities, and turns a deaf ear to all input and offers 
for assistance, and gets very effective passive support by both YMI and 
HOT in their non compliance of the OEG.

back to the three points from your writing:

do you think my "recommendations" for the chapter's 2019 activity are of 
any value?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21

regards,

Mario Frasca

On 02/12/2020 16:50, john whelan wrote:
> I would suggest that if someone could identify a list of mapping tasks 
> suitable for beginners that might help this sort of thing happening 
> again.
>
> I'd done a fair amount of validation of HOT tasks in the past which 
> I'm sure are similar and I'm more than aware of the amount of effort 
> needed to validate after new untrained enthusiastic mappers have been 
> mapping.  Especially when they map only a couple of times.
>
> I'm also aware that it does take a lot of knowledge and resources to 
> clean up afterwards.
>
> Do we need a half page introduction to OSM? Something along the lines 
> of if you are organising some sort of mapathon these are things you 
> need to consider and theses are the sort of things that have caused 
> problems in the past. I get the feeling the enthusiastic organisers 
> are going to do it anyway but it help help a bit.
>
> It doesn't help the present situation but it might help prevent more 
> problems in the future.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 16:29 Mario Frasca <mario at anche.no 
> <mailto:mario at anche.no>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Rory,
>
>     let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole
>     community, not just to me.
>
>     BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the
>     University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that
>     there's a local community of mappers already mapping, and with
>     some experience in different fields.
>
>     unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to
>     their changesets, or to consider complaints about their low
>     quality of edits, and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into
>     not-too-simple tasks.  recently they had their yearly "Gis Day",
>     please don't ask me what it is, because I don't know, only that
>     there's a hashtag being used once a year by the YouthMappers UP
>     Chapter. also please don't ask me who's inside this chapter,
>     because I don't know.
>
>     when Mateusz wrote to info at youthmappers.org
>     <mailto:info at youthmappers.org> about their organized editing
>     activity without declaration of intents, the result of his writing
>     was that HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the
>     community were editing using the tasking manager from
>     tareas.openstreetmap.co <http://tareas.openstreetmap.co>, forcing
>     us to clean up the edits while they were coming in.  that's
>     Santiago and Colón.
>
>     in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to
>     close their project so they would stay away from the work which
>     was anyway almost complete.
>
>     in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.
>
>     there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that
>     they are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from
>     beginner mapper agreenish
>     <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/agreenish>, arguably adding to
>     the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in either
>     project.
>
>     I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a
>     structured presentation of what goes on here. there's statistical
>     data I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from
>     YMUP, and I find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the
>     words by YouthMappers International, the call for patience by HOT,
>     and the continued self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we
>     need to do the cleaning up.
>
>     you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing. hopefully
>     no YouthMappers there.
>
>     ciao,
>
>     Mario
>
>
>     On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:
>>     Hi Mario,
>>
>>     Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact
>>     the chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that
>>     they had begun to validate the tasks they had created.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>
>>     Rory
>>
>>     On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca <mario at anche.no
>>     <mailto:mario at anche.no>> wrote:
>>
>>         Dear Rory,
>>
>>         let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we
>>         should wait,
>>         for the YMUP to review their edits?
>>
>>         as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes
>>         something
>>         like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint
>>         4 days
>>         after the edit — which he fixed himself.
>>
>>         maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day",
>>         which could
>>         be "the next available day".
>>
>>         in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not
>>         ongoing activities.
>>
>>         so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they
>>         abandoned
>>         the location?
>>
>>         a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)
>>
>>         a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)
>>
>>         a year?  (ah? next group, please?)
>>
>>         best regards, Mario Frasca
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     */Rory Nealon (he/him)/*
>>     */Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager/*
>>     */US Agency for International Development/*
>>     */Washington, DC/*
>>     */+1 202.468.7890/*
>>     */GeoCenter MyUSAID Site
>>     <https://pages.usaid.gov/theLab/CGS/geocenter>/*
>>
>>     /*The Geographic Approach to Development
>>     <https://usaid.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=92ef58b1014745c5b2a3338c42fd3674>*/
>>
>>
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